Quoting: omer666I think privacy advocacy may be going a little over the top on this subject.

That's what they usually do, so yes.

Really, this seems very beneficial and absolutely harmless.

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Quoting: StoneColdSpider

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Oof the opening of the trailer just gave me flashbacks to Spore....... *shudders*

I get that.

Spore, even decades later, still evokes that feeling of terrible disappointment and utterly wasted potential.

No wonder it took so long until someone even dared to try make another attempt.

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Quoting: GuestProton totally nuked this concept.

Not really.
That's still the best way by far to do cross-platform development.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyIt's funny, part of the Tetris resemblance is actually pointless from a gameplay perspective. I mean, as far as I can tell it doesn't matter much what shape the things are coming down because they just turn into sand on contact, so they could just be blobs (narrower and taller or wider and flatter) coming down and it would work the same. But they use the Tetris shapes just for the evocation of Tetris-ness.

I have noiced ha you make frequen use of he leer , which bears an uncanny resembly o a eris block. Boh upper and lowercase, oo!
his is unaccepable, herefore I mus noify he eris lawyers immediaely!

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Noita + Tetris = ???

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Quoting: Numeric

Quoting: TheSHEEEPFor desktops, I'm not sure about the use case.

Even without immutability, most big distros are already "it just works" - and in addition also offer more possibility to customize.

What it would offer is more security to not accidentally mess up your system, I'd wager.
But even then, that's what rollbacks are for, so... yeah, I'm really not sure about the use case on normal desktop.

The normal use case for immutability on the desktop, is the same reason immutability is the default on smartphones. I truly believe that the average human sees technology (in all forms) akin to that of an appliance or automobile. You push a button, engage with the controls, and it generates the expected response near every time. After providing voluntarily community IT support for many years, this impression is almost carved in stone within me.

At the core of it, the people I work with want to know very little about their PC (for a variety of reasons). Majority never even change the desktop wallpaper. They push the power button, then expect everything to work and be up to date. The younger ones do some customization, but defaults are king. Their systems take care of themselves and manual interaction is only performed when forced by system prompts. Linux can not enter this space without providing that which the current offerings have, which is an appliance-like nature by default. Automatic stable atomic updates, simple program installation, access to the majority of modern applications, and quick recoverability from technological hiccups are all needed to be baked in the operating system. Due to the functional structure of Linux and its FOSS subsystems, I truly respect the struggle that Fedora Silverblue/Kinoite, SteamOS, MicroOS Aeon, and now Ubuntu development teams are engaged in to make this experience come to light.

Those reading here on GamingOnLinux are near guaranteed to not be the category of people I have described above. Hopefully, the Linux community at large can grow to be more understanding of the need for immutable desktop operating system. Without a doubt, there is a commercial interest from the these Linux companies, but should we not be supportive all the same for getting FOSS into the hands of people who are currently being exploited by non-open systems? Give this time, let's not let snaps vs ostree vs native be the focus, these things sort themselves out. While Fedora Kinoite may be my current go-to recommendation for new Linux users, I am very curiosity to see how things play out on the snap front.

TL:DR Immutable OSes need to come for the masses to engage with Linux and FOSS at a system level. Average people have quite a different perspective on computers than tech-understanding users like the GamingOnLinux readership. On both the commercial and humanitarian fronts, Immutable OSes provide benefits and the established Linux community should do it best to support these efforts (or at the very least not publicly disparage the good that comes form it).

Edit: To clarify, my last sentence was not implying that your specific comment was disparaging. Rather it was direct to the generic Linux user/commentator that might be inflamed by immutables.

So, an entry level Linux drug, then?

I can get on board with that :grin:

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For desktops, I'm not sure about the use case.

Even without immutability, most big distros are already "it just works" - and in addition also offer more possibility to customize.

What it would offer is more security to not accidentally mess up your system, I'd wager.
But even then, that's what rollbacks are for, so... yeah, I'm really not sure about the use case on normal desktop.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyYou know, my background is in English literature. I've read starting from Beowulf, through Chaucer, Shakespeare, Pope, Swift, the Romantics and through to T.S. Eliot and such. It is my considered opinion that the greatest work of literature of the 20th century . . . has trolls in it.

My dude.... you are reading books that are not a 1-to-1 portrayal of historical facts.
What a childish thing to do!

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyI think TheSHEEEP is being a bit over the top in claiming they're automatically going to be rubbish.

I never said that.
I think there are some great purely historical games out there.
And I also think CA's more historical ones are pretty good.

What I did say is that they are going to get boring a lot faster than fantasy ones due to the limitations of sticking to history, but I'm not sure if that has much to do with overall quality.

It's just a simple fact that they aren't doing as well as fantasy ones because the audience that tends to favor that stick-strictly-to-history isn't big enough.

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Quoting: Deleted_UserI can't understand where you got these statements from. Neither CA (which wouldn't include Feral sales) nor SEGA released any relyable numbers on the sales of the titles.

Steam reviews provide all you need for a good ballpark estimate of sales.
The amount of reviews for games is at something around 0.5-1% (some very good recent titles have even gone up to 1/60 and indies regularly get a lot more).
From that you get the rough sales numbers.

3K did indeed not sell badly. Afaik, it was the fastest selling title CA ever made?
But you need to look at what really rakes in the cash for games like that over time: DLC. And those need concurrent player numbers.

Now, I don't know if any of CA's games made them a net loss - in fact I doubt it, they are much better run as a company than they are as developers - but it is very clear from player numbers alone which titles did well and which ones did not.
3K basically dropped down to around 5K players just a few months after launch - and still sits there. With DLCs not having made much of a dent.
And the other historical titles fared much worse (though again, hard to say what kind of EGS deals were made for Troy). Troy and Thrones Of Brittannia sit at like 300 people playing.

Meanwhile, WH3 - despite a launch so terrible it will be remembered forever as a complete fumble - sits rather comfortably at around 25k players a year after launch. With DLCs definitely making a dent.
So there really can't be much of a discussion if fantasy-themed games are doing better than historical ones.

But I must admit, to my surprise the older historical titles are still doing surprisingly well, with player numbers in the 2k region:
https://steamcharts.com/search/?q=total+war [External Link]
I did NOT expect especially Empire to still have such a stable player base. Despite spending a lot of time in TW communities, I've never encountered anyone talking about Empire.

So, who knows. Maybe they can afford to just play the long game here with the historical titles after all.

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