Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: slaapliedjeAnyone figure out how to get it onto the SteamDeck yet? Still maintain that Gnome would have been a better interface on it...

Gnome would be a worse interface due to it’s forceful restrictions and constant desire to break it’s addons.

Plasma is looser but less likely to decide things like “the global file menu isn’t necessary” or “the calendar and clock should be centered”.

So don't use addons. The only one that's necessary in some instances is AppIndicators. Can you name some of these forceful restrictions?

Yikes, that’s the whole issue with Gnome is telling it’s users what they do and don’t need. I don’t use Gnome at all because it’s very restrictive. To the point where you have to install a separate config utility to tweak certain options on the desktop.

So I will gladly not use addons because I don’t use Gnome I use KDE Plasma.

I'm not making any assumptions about what you want with your desktop. I'm simply saying that if you want GNOME to be reliable, don't rely on extensions. If you can't use GNOME without extensions, it almost certainly isn't for you, and you'll have a bad time with it.

Maintaining an extensions API requires time and attention that can't be spent anywhere else. That's why the GIMP Team almost deprecated their extensions feature recently until somebody offered to maintain it. I can't begrudge the GNOME Team for focusing on what they believe is important at the expense of what they don't.

GNOME being opinionated is a good thing, as well. It means their small team only needs to focus on specific use cases they want to support, and most features work very reliably. More features are being moved from GNOME Tweaks to the general settings application over time, though I think the only feature that doesn't belong in Tweaks right now is Startup Applications.

There are things about GNOME that I wish were different, of course:

• I wish that I didn't have to go through dconf-editor to add keyboard shortcuts for workspaces 5-10 (and I wish that I didn't have to spend far too much time figuring out the keysyms to get this done, even working around a bug that prevents the "correct" keysym from being used)


• I wish that there was an option that dismissed notifications after 3 seconds.


• I wish GNOME Books wasn't useless.

I'm actually using Sway right now, but I've always been fond of GNOME. I think it takes all the good things from macOS, combines that with solid window management and workspace management, and doesn't ship a terrible file manager. I've always treated it as a WM with far less time investment required from the user.

I really don't think GNOME is particularly restrictive...it just doesn't have some of the features you want, and if you want them, you can rely on an extension at your peril. If GNOME were really adamant about their way being the only way, they wouldn't bother maintaining their extensions feature at all, and they wouldn't ship GNOME Tweaks. Instead, they nudge their users into considering an alternative to the traditional desktop metaphor because they think it's better.

Or I’ll continue using KDE which is stable and has many ways to extend the desktop. Why would I sacrifice usability for opinionated desktop? Especially if I can get that opinionated style with greater flexibility elsewhere.

You'll notice that I never suggested you use GNOME.

But you did suggest using Gnome without extensions. Which I wouldn’t ever do. A lot of extensions are things like “system tray shortcut for X app”. Those break all the time and it’s often weeks before it is working again. I don’t know how Gnome fans can continue to ignore it but I literally changed distros from Pop_OS to Manjaro because of Gnome and it’s extension breakage.

Maybe they think it’s better to restrict the desktop but I have a strong disagree.

As for terrible things in Gnome, the file manager might be one of the biggest.

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Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: slaapliedjeAnyone figure out how to get it onto the SteamDeck yet? Still maintain that Gnome would have been a better interface on it...

Gnome would be a worse interface due to it’s forceful restrictions and constant desire to break it’s addons.

Plasma is looser but less likely to decide things like “the global file menu isn’t necessary” or “the calendar and clock should be centered”.

So don't use addons. The only one that's necessary in some instances is AppIndicators. Can you name some of these forceful restrictions?

Yikes, that’s the whole issue with Gnome is telling it’s users what they do and don’t need. I don’t use Gnome at all because it’s very restrictive. To the point where you have to install a separate config utility to tweak certain options on the desktop.

So I will gladly not use addons because I don’t use Gnome I use KDE Plasma.

I'm not making any assumptions about what you want with your desktop. I'm simply saying that if you want GNOME to be reliable, don't rely on extensions. If you can't use GNOME without extensions, it almost certainly isn't for you, and you'll have a bad time with it.

Maintaining an extensions API requires time and attention that can't be spent anywhere else. That's why the GIMP Team almost deprecated their extensions feature recently until somebody offered to maintain it. I can't begrudge the GNOME Team for focusing on what they believe is important at the expense of what they don't.

GNOME being opinionated is a good thing, as well. It means their small team only needs to focus on specific use cases they want to support, and most features work very reliably. More features are being moved from GNOME Tweaks to the general settings application over time, though I think the only feature that doesn't belong in Tweaks right now is Startup Applications.

There are things about GNOME that I wish were different, of course:

• I wish that I didn't have to go through dconf-editor to add keyboard shortcuts for workspaces 5-10 (and I wish that I didn't have to spend far too much time figuring out the keysyms to get this done, even working around a bug that prevents the "correct" keysym from being used)


• I wish that there was an option that dismissed notifications after 3 seconds.


• I wish GNOME Books wasn't useless.

I'm actually using Sway right now, but I've always been fond of GNOME. I think it takes all the good things from macOS, combines that with solid window management and workspace management, and doesn't ship a terrible file manager. I've always treated it as a WM with far less time investment required from the user.

I really don't think GNOME is particularly restrictive...it just doesn't have some of the features you want, and if you want them, you can rely on an extension at your peril. If GNOME were really adamant about their way being the only way, they wouldn't bother maintaining their extensions feature at all, and they wouldn't ship GNOME Tweaks. Instead, they nudge their users into considering an alternative to the traditional desktop metaphor because they think it's better.

Or I’ll continue using KDE which is stable and has many ways to extend the desktop. Why would I sacrifice usability for opinionated desktop? Especially if I can get that opinionated style with greater flexibility elsewhere.

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: slaapliedjeAnyone figure out how to get it onto the SteamDeck yet? Still maintain that Gnome would have been a better interface on it...

Gnome would be a worse interface due to it’s forceful restrictions and constant desire to break it’s addons.

Plasma is looser but less likely to decide things like “the global file menu isn’t necessary” or “the calendar and clock should be centered”.

So don't use addons. The only one that's necessary in some instances is AppIndicators. Can you name some of these forceful restrictions?

Yikes, that’s the whole issue with Gnome is telling it’s users what they do and don’t need. I don’t use Gnome at all because it’s very restrictive. To the point where you have to install a separate config utility to tweak certain options on the desktop.

So I will gladly not use addons because I don’t use Gnome I use KDE Plasma.

Eh? dconf is included as part of gnome. If that is what you are referring to. I think Tweaks is now deprecated, and even extensions can be managed through their website (which is weird to me, but generally works.) Extensions not working shouldn't be a thing if developers would simply have a VM installed with the gnome nightly set up... at least I would think so, I haven't developed one, so I may be speaking out of my exit orifice.

The issue isn’t the developer’s setup but rather the constant moving target.

That was my point, you can install a Gnome Nightly VM that the Gnome team themselves manage. If you're developing an extension for Gnome, that's likely the best way to make sure it's still working when a new release is starting to trickle into distributions.

FOSS Maintainers usually do this as a side gig. It’s not something they keep up with because there is little incentive. The moving target desktop platform requires more time to keep up. So extensions get broken. It’s not the developer setup. It’s the time and effort cost and little to no return.

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: slaapliedjeAnyone figure out how to get it onto the SteamDeck yet? Still maintain that Gnome would have been a better interface on it...

Gnome would be a worse interface due to it’s forceful restrictions and constant desire to break it’s addons.

Plasma is looser but less likely to decide things like “the global file menu isn’t necessary” or “the calendar and clock should be centered”.

So don't use addons. The only one that's necessary in some instances is AppIndicators. Can you name some of these forceful restrictions?

Yikes, that’s the whole issue with Gnome is telling it’s users what they do and don’t need. I don’t use Gnome at all because it’s very restrictive. To the point where you have to install a separate config utility to tweak certain options on the desktop.

So I will gladly not use addons because I don’t use Gnome I use KDE Plasma.

Eh? dconf is included as part of gnome. If that is what you are referring to. I think Tweaks is now deprecated, and even extensions can be managed through their website (which is weird to me, but generally works.) Extensions not working shouldn't be a thing if developers would simply have a VM installed with the gnome nightly set up... at least I would think so, I haven't developed one, so I may be speaking out of my exit orifice.

The issue isn’t the developer’s setup but rather the constant moving target.

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Quoting: pleasereadthemanual

Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: slaapliedjeAnyone figure out how to get it onto the SteamDeck yet? Still maintain that Gnome would have been a better interface on it...

Gnome would be a worse interface due to it’s forceful restrictions and constant desire to break it’s addons.

Plasma is looser but less likely to decide things like “the global file menu isn’t necessary” or “the calendar and clock should be centered”.

So don't use addons. The only one that's necessary in some instances is AppIndicators. Can you name some of these forceful restrictions?

Yikes, that’s the whole issue with Gnome is telling it’s users what they do and don’t need. I don’t use Gnome at all because it’s very restrictive. To the point where you have to install a separate config utility to tweak certain options on the desktop.

So I will gladly not use addons because I don’t use Gnome I use KDE Plasma.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: slaapliedjeAnyone figure out how to get it onto the SteamDeck yet? Still maintain that Gnome would have been a better interface on it...

Gnome would be a worse interface due to it’s forceful restrictions and constant desire to break it’s addons.

Plasma is looser but less likely to decide things like “the global file menu isn’t necessary” or “the calendar and clock should be centered”.

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Quoting: HellsBells24If I'm GOG, right now I'm busting my ass to massively expand the Linux capabilities of my platform, whether thats reviving Galaxy, partnering with Heroic, bundling Proton and/or Source Ports with games, whatever it takes.
This and the BioShock fiasco should make one thing clear to gamers; go old school with the content you own and do it now. I've already transitioned mostly to GOG copies, Luxtorpeda, or the few Steam games that are DRM free. Anything else doesn't need to be installed.

But in reality GOG retired their Linux Galaxy efforts recently. Lutris provides more than enough support I find anyways.

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Quoting: constI want real community forums back, reddit is cancer.

Consider that we need somewhere to put the cancer/blind outrage output and that visiting reddit isn’t very useful for immediate reactions. Avoid it, vote with your wallet (browser).

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I dream of a world where most Steam clients aren’t just browsers and I can get excited about something like this.

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Good to hear. Though anecdotally the acceptance rate so far has been about 50/50 among my acquaintances. I’m hearing of returns for all sorts of reasons. I’m also hearing great love for it as well.

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