Quoting: GuestI guess I should point out that Valve have never said anything they do is intended to lead to more native ports. Quite the opposite actually - they've officially said not to bother!

So just like Google never said that Stadia would encourage native desktop GNU/Linux game development and people kind of assumed it would happen, Valve have never said it either and it probably won't happen.

This was one concern long ago about the approach VP did, but at least they supported the title running under GNU/Linux. There's not even that here, and native development (and support) is being discouraged - the result of which is this news. I can't see it ending well for GNU/Linux desktop gaming.

It would make more sense to me to encourage devs/publisher to provide native builds and have Proton as a fallback.
Best would be to establish in-house know how and awareness for nativ ports. Doesn't happen this way.

Just think Microsoft comes up with a Direct3D 13, completely incompatible and there is no such working Proton channel.
No way they could pull off something reliably working within months.

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: sub

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Philadelphus

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: subIf Valve is serious about Linux, I'd still propose charging like 5 % less Valve fee if the published game features a Linux build.

That wouldn't help.

Sure, it would encourage them to press the "build for Linux" button for some free money, which is more than many devs do, but it wouldn't encourage them to do any testing or provide any support. At all.

"But," you might say, "the discount should only apply to proper Linux versions, not those other ones," and suddenly Valve has to be a gatekeeper, creating lots of uncertainty for devs as to whether they'll have their funds withheld, and Valve are having to do (a lot) more work in exchange for less money.

Hmm, what about 5% less Valve fee on every Linux purchase only? Then developers have incentive to make a good Linux version and to get people to buy it on Linux, without Valve necessarily having to play gatekeeper. Players can vote with their wallets and refund if they don't like it. Hearing devs begging players to buy on Linux would be amazing. :whistle:

Of course, the time to have done something like that is a few years ago, since any purchases on an unmodified Steam Deck will be a Linux purchase anyway, which would skew the numbers somewhat once it comes out (I think that's how it works even if you play on Proton, right?). But maybe that'll make developers more interested in a Linux version if the fraction of Linux purchases goes up over time even without any direct monetary incentives on Valve's part…

Wouldn't really work, as the purchase is multi-platform. People would install a Linux VM, buy it for 5% off, then play it on Windows...

Who says the cut is forwarded to the customer?

It should be an incentive to the dev/publisher imho.
That's why I suggested to lower the fee for all platforms if the publisher provides a Linux build.

I see the point with the gatekeeper argument, but if it turns out to be required (wouldn't start with it),
then okay. I mean Apple is checking apps in their store, so is afaik Google.

Oh, I misread. Yeah that's much better. I'm hoping with the Steam Deck, developers will actually start to make Linux more of a primary concern than the 'also runs on' that some of them have been doing. As much as Unity and Unreal try to make things easy to just export to Linux, some stuff works for a while, then the developers run into some bugs and just give up. Supraland comes to mind...

I am, ofc, not against lower prices for customers but the incentive for devs/publishers to get more from each sale will profit us more in the long run, imho.
Even with AAA, the shareholders might ask: If you could get 3-5 % more money out of each sale, no matter what platform, what does it costs you to get out a Linux build and maintain it (keep it synchronized with the Windows version)?

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Quoting: Eike

Quoting: sub

Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: HoriBut does the Deck even have freesync?

That was kind of my point. Nobody mentioned it and yet it would be an invaluable feature on a device like this.

I'm sure there is a named rule that goes like

"If a major feature is not explicitly mentioned, it's not available"

The YouTubers who's name I forgot said a) this and b) they were able to count frame rates based on videos which wouldn't have been possible with VRR.

Meh

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Philadelphus

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: subIf Valve is serious about Linux, I'd still propose charging like 5 % less Valve fee if the published game features a Linux build.

That wouldn't help.

Sure, it would encourage them to press the "build for Linux" button for some free money, which is more than many devs do, but it wouldn't encourage them to do any testing or provide any support. At all.

"But," you might say, "the discount should only apply to proper Linux versions, not those other ones," and suddenly Valve has to be a gatekeeper, creating lots of uncertainty for devs as to whether they'll have their funds withheld, and Valve are having to do (a lot) more work in exchange for less money.

Hmm, what about 5% less Valve fee on every Linux purchase only? Then developers have incentive to make a good Linux version and to get people to buy it on Linux, without Valve necessarily having to play gatekeeper. Players can vote with their wallets and refund if they don't like it. Hearing devs begging players to buy on Linux would be amazing. :whistle:

Of course, the time to have done something like that is a few years ago, since any purchases on an unmodified Steam Deck will be a Linux purchase anyway, which would skew the numbers somewhat once it comes out (I think that's how it works even if you play on Proton, right?). But maybe that'll make developers more interested in a Linux version if the fraction of Linux purchases goes up over time even without any direct monetary incentives on Valve's part…

Wouldn't really work, as the purchase is multi-platform. People would install a Linux VM, buy it for 5% off, then play it on Windows...

Who says the cut is forwarded to the customer?

It should be an incentive to the dev/publisher imho.
That's why I suggested to lower the fee for all platforms if the publisher provides a Linux build.

I see the point with the gatekeeper argument, but if it turns out to be required (wouldn't start with it),
then okay. I mean Apple is checking apps in their store, so is afaik Google.

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Quoting: Lofty

Quoting: HoriBut does the Deck even have freesync?

That was kind of my point. Nobody mentioned it and yet it would be an invaluable feature on a device like this.

I'm sure there is a named rule that goes like

"If a major feature is not explicitly mentioned, it's not available"

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Quoting: rustybroomhandle

Quoting: sub

Quoting: DaiKaiser93

Quoting: BlackBloodRumFeel like giving this writer a penguin slap with a wet fish.

The OS is built on proton? Proton is a version of Linux? Grrr so much inaccuracy.

I really wish IGN would fact check and research before they write!

There's other problems with their writing too but this is just an example of an immediate in your face mistake.

So please Liam help us out here! :D

The whole "The OS is built on Proton" bit sounds like the writer has no idea of what Proton is, that or he thought calling it a compatibility layer would confuse people. I personally would have gone with "although Steam OS is built of Linux, it comes packed with Proton, an utility that allows Windows games to run on it seamlessly" or something along those words.

I would expect Valve to tell them about those major mistakes.

That article has been there since 15 Jul, so I guess not.

Actually that's what I meant.
If they really have a close partnership with IGN this is slightly heading in the wrong direction, imho.

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Quoting: DaiKaiser93

Quoting: BlackBloodRumFeel like giving this writer a penguin slap with a wet fish.

The OS is built on proton? Proton is a version of Linux? Grrr so much inaccuracy.

I really wish IGN would fact check and research before they write!

There's other problems with their writing too but this is just an example of an immediate in your face mistake.

So please Liam help us out here! :D

The whole "The OS is built on Proton" bit sounds like the writer has no idea of what Proton is, that or he thought calling it a compatibility layer would confuse people. I personally would have gone with "although Steam OS is built of Linux, it comes packed with Proton, an utility that allows Windows games to run on it seamlessly" or something along those words.

I would expect Valve to tell them about those major mistakes.

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Intel will have a hard time to reestablish trust in the reliability of their manufacturing processes.

"Real man have fabs" is a thing from the 90's. With more and more complicated processes, you're
better off leaving it to external partners. The risks nowadays seem to outweigh the advantages by far.

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Great to learn about Portal 2: Desolation. :)

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: whizse

Quoting: EikeThey explicitly said they've got stuff not shown yet. I don't believe in "everything", but "most new" would be great already.

Maybe that's getting the anti-cheat vendors to start supporting Proton?

That we've got a quote on; they specifically said they were working with the anti-cheat vendors to get Proton support for anti-cheat. I believe it was practically in the same breath that they mentioned "stuff not shown yet"; it kind of looks like that's on top of the anti-cheat.
That said, they're not going to get every game working. But it could be significantly more than now.
It would probably be worth having a couple of people go through looking at all the "Gold" or so games and every one that works fine but you have to put some little thingy in the command line, putting that in so it's automatic. Just that would significantly increase how many games Just Work.

I guess we all agree that giving the impression to journalists and potential customers "that the full catalog will work" is harmful to the project and should be sorted out asap?

We all know there's quite a bunch of people out there just waiting to dissect that - I guess - wonderful machine once it's out and make a big fuzz out of every single game not running properly. It would be really sad seeing the Deck going down like the Steam Machines just because PR was handled naively.

Maybe Valve is afraid of admitting that Proton is not perfect (though really good, don't get me wrong).
But not communicating that openly will cause major damage to the project.

Just my 2 cents.

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