Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: CatKiller

Quoting: mylka

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: mylkai think they should make it more clear, that they do not sell a WINDOWS PC and you may not be able to play some games and you wont be able to install windows software like you do on windows

Nobody expects a thing like a Nintendo Switch to be a Windows PC. I don't think they need to sweat that a whole lot.

but switch owners expect to play their switch games
steam deck players wont be able to play all their steam games

I agree with you that it's something that needs to be addressed head on, but it seems clear that compatibility will be indicated in some fashion (that's how the rumours started in the first place). I think that Valve's aspiration to remove all barriers without specific game dev intervention is unrealistic.

However, the fact that not all PCs can play all PC games has been known to PC gamers for decades. My current desktop can play every game I can throw at it, but my ultrabook, my NUC and my now-retired Sandy Bridge machine simply can't. It is a pain that there are additional technical barriers if game devs don't make their products work on this machine, but the existence of titles that can't be run shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

Funny thing is, with Windows 10, the opposite can be true as well, where games haven't been updated to work with it, and you're hosed if you run anything newer than Windows 7. Linux in this case with Proton/Wine has way better compatibility.

except for, wsl...
and most people dont care that much about old games as they do care about new games

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Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: elmapulhey liam i remembered something...
google recently said that they made something to help developers port games to stadia...
so they dont have to rewrite the code to vulkan, it should work for any directx 9/10/11 game, aparently almost all apis were covered by their project...
maybe that explain why valve is so confident on runing all games at the relase of the device, stadia might not be the only device who will get the benefits from the efforts from google.

i'm not sure if google is working on something akin to what fna is to xna, where you recompile the code and it works... maybe with a few tweaks...
or something akin to proton

I don't think google has released any of their stuff, have they? At least as far as allowing other people to be able to use it.

From the videos I saw last night, Proton has some builds within Valve that they haven't released yet that are experimental above experimental, but are very much making it so more and more games just work out of the box, and are hoping to get the anti-cheat stuff working in time for the release in December.

afaik most of the tech behind stadia is opensource, its not like they have anything to lose considering most cloud services are runing on top of windows and if more people start using linux instead, that only means that more game engines will support linux and more game companies will support wich should make the deals cheaper for everyone involved.

speaking of that...
Atari has an linux console, google stadia is based on linux, now steampal

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hey liam i remembered something...
google recently said that they made something to help developers port games to stadia...
so they dont have to rewrite the code to vulkan, it should work for any directx 9/10/11 game, aparently almost all apis were covered by their project...
maybe that explain why valve is so confident on runing all games at the relase of the device, stadia might not be the only device who will get the benefits from the efforts from google.

i'm not sure if google is working on something akin to what fna is to xna, where you recompile the code and it works... maybe with a few tweaks...
or something akin to proton

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i think valve should allow an second version of the game to be distributed for this device, with things like: low res textures, and maybe even less polygons, so you can save resources on ram/storage/battery life.

i doubt any developer will make that move unless this thing sell a lot or valve pay then to do so.
actually, i dont doubt:

https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/05/hints-appear-of-valve-making-a-possible-handheld-steam-qsteampalq-neptune-console

"Device Optimized Games"

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"There's still no guarantees that a game update won't break the Windows build in Proton. How long will we have to wait for a fix? Tens of thousands of games on Steam is a ridiculous thing from Valve to take on to ensure they work."
that only aply for games that receive updates, many games dont because they are quite old and the developers/publishers dont have any reason to update then.

"The work is already done for Proton (and Wine that it's based upon), that won't just go away. "
yes, but i dont want linux to be viewed as an platform for retrogaming only forever.

"KDE Plasma has come a very long way in even just the last two years too, and it looks really good."
i'm surprised they didnt used gnome, wich is more popular on distros.
i'm glad they didnt.

"Other vendors? What other vendors?"

ok, now THIS is bothering me.
when "freedom" became more important than anything else?
i mean, we can sacrifice everything in the name of "freedom" and then end up without everythinga and without freedom, as they say:
“Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither.”

or in this case:
we are willing to lock ourselves to valve as the only provider of games, to get ride of microsoft as the only provider of operating systems.

we are willing to give up performance/graphical features for open source drivers or give up open source drivers and firmwares to be able to play more stuff/with more performance.

we are willing to give up tools and art (games) in order to get more "freedom" (to do what, i dont know, i need tools to make anything)

i dont like the trend here, we're giving up many things and not solving the bug 0 (lack of marketshare).

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"we finally know what all their recent Linux work has been for over the last few years. "

Dont say it... i mean, if this thing flop, they might as well give up

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1280 x 800px (16:10 aspect ratio)
i hate 16:10, sigh i prefer 16:9

Connectivity
"Bluetooth
Bluetooth 5.0 (support for controllers, accessories and audio)
Wi-Fi
Dual-band Wi-Fi radio, 2.4GHz and 5GHz, 2 x 2 MIMO, IEEE 802.11a/b/g/n/ac"
no 3g/4g/5g? they are crazy or expect people to pair it with their phone to play on the go?

"Approx. 120 grams"
impressive!

"Once you've logged into Steam Deck, your entire Steam Library shows up, just like any other PC. You'll be able to find your collections and favorites - exactly where you left them."
i doubt all games will work, there is only 4 months for the realse.

and speaking of that, they are sending devkits now? inst a bit too later? i mean, they plan to relase this thing at the end of this year, right?

"It's an open system too, since it's basically a PC in your hands. Valve said "you can install third party software and operating systems""
i saw this movie before, once the government of my country tried to push linux, but everyone installed an pirated version of windows instead.
hopefully things are different now, with more games avaliable for linux than ever, but i'm tired of creating fake hopes.
considering the the base version only have 64GB of storage, running linux on it may actually be the smarth move.
but how many triple a games people will be able to install?
and loading files from an external storage might be too slow, it should have an system with priorities for some files on an device with an realiable loading speed (internal storeage) and other files wich may not be required loading from external storage when/if avaliable.

"Steam Deck starts at $399, with increased storage options available for $529 and $649. "
for an launch price this seems ok, but they need to cut this price to 300 if they want to compete with switch, people really value the price of an device, they gave up purchasing ps4 in favor of xbox one last gen for an 50U$D difference in price, they can do the samething again with this one.

from the ign article:
"Pierre-Loup Griffais: Bem, há uma grande variedade de experiências lá. Demora cerca de 2 a 8 horas,
Portal 2 por quatro horas nele. Se você limitar a 30 FPS, estará jogando por 5 a 6 horas."

2 hours in the worst case scenario? that should not be an option for an brand new battery, imagine on an used one.
and portal2 is an...
ok this thing is target at retro gaming, there are some modern games on it, but it will not least until the end of the generation if you want to play the lastests relases.

i'm afraid that valve didnt learned nothing from steam machines fiasco, at least people seem excited about this one right now.
(and by people i mean the average joe, not linux users)

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Quoting: furaxhornyx

Quoting: elmapul

Quoting: furaxhornyx

Quoting: elmapul[...]
i mean, if we didnt got more marketshare, what will be the result of that then? simple, the ultimate drm, and as soon as they start making more cloud exclusive games , we can kiss goodby to preservation, say hello to region locking and regional censorship will be impossible to avoid.

"...but that's without our <insert well-known brand> VPN solution !" :grin:

W.R.O.N.G.

we cant rely on VPN forever because cloud gaming has an magic thing called "input lag", the light speed has an limit, you cant send an signal for an server in the other side of the world and receive the result in less than 1/7 second, even in an straight line without any processing involved.
now add the detour to the vpn servers, and other detour from an straight line+the time to process, encode and decode the image and we quickly see the limits of this tech.
its not an big deal if you live close to the servers, but as i said, what if the game is exclusive to another country and to the cloud?

and what if they decide to stop distributing/selling the game because the rights to an character expired or something like that?

I know, but most VPN sellers will market you otherwise :wink: (I think I have even seen the argument of "going through our servers will in fact reduce your lag")

I was just replying in a sarcastic way to the argument of region locking / unavailable content.

oh sorry, i'm really slow with sarcasm

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Quoting: furaxhornyx

Quoting: elmapul[...]
i mean, if we didnt got more marketshare, what will be the result of that then? simple, the ultimate drm, and as soon as they start making more cloud exclusive games , we can kiss goodby to preservation, say hello to region locking and regional censorship will be impossible to avoid.

"...but that's without our <insert well-known brand> VPN solution !" :grin:

W.R.O.N.G.

we cant rely on VPN forever because cloud gaming has an magic thing called "input lag", the light speed has an limit, you cant send an signal for an server in the other side of the world and receive the result in less than 1/7 second, even in an straight line without any processing involved.
now add the detour to the vpn servers, and other detour from an straight line+the time to process, encode and decode the image and we quickly see the limits of this tech.
its not an big deal if you live close to the servers, but as i said, what if the game is exclusive to another country and to the cloud?

and what if they decide to stop distributing/selling the game because the rights to an character expired or something like that?

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Quoting: jrtI'm not a fan of the DirectX support. Until now, I haven't seen a single game that made it from Stadia to the Linux desktop.
The good thing about Stadia was that it resulted in knowledge about Linux development and the Vulkan API in the studios (+ support in their tech-stack).
The one positive takeaway from the presentation is in my eyes that their porting toolkit helps with the 64-bit adoption in game studios.

its worse than that.
many people played games on consoles and consoles alone, that didnt solved our issue with the lack of marketshare, people who played on consoles didnt used linux, so even if those games became avaliable to play on linux thanks to stadia, that wont magically change our marketshare.

and if our marketshare dont change, then they have no reason to support it.

i fear that the cloud future will be nebulous.

i mean, if we didnt got more marketshare, what will be the result of that then? simple, the ultimate drm, and as soon as they start making more cloud exclusive games , we can kiss goodby to preservation, say hello to region locking and regional censorship will be impossible to avoid.

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