Quoting: SkyGuyWhyBut from another perspective aside from Valve's, say you're watching market share and hoping for Linux to overtake windows?

here is my prediction (i said it before already, and gonna repeat)

windows marketshare on desktop will not move an inch, but steam deck will sell a lot.
it will be just like android, didnt affected windows marketshare, despite the fact that there are more androids than windows nowadays.

nowadays we have iOS as the more closed ecosystem, and android as the more open-one (you can side load apps, install from other stores, anyone can develop, and the base system is open source)

the same will happen for the console market, we will have machines running SteamOS in the open consoles, and companies like sony, nintendo and microsoft doing their own closed walled garden, maybe microsoft, sony or even nintendo wil try to compete in the open market, who knows? it wont be the first time sony and nintendo relase an linux system (ps classic, nes and snes mini) hell even sega made one (game gear micro), if microsoft decide to enter this market with windows, and nintendo face another generation like n64, gamecube and wiiU where they strugled to sell consoles, first party games (due to lack of install base) and lack thirdy party support, maybe they will try their luck with steamOS or "nintendoOS".
sony already gave us the "otherOS" option on PS3, and a linux kit on PS2.
i dont see sega returning to the console market, but they surprised me with gamegear micro, and some of their arcades run linux.

we have being seing tons of micro consoles runing android, windows and now even StemOS, so maybe in the future, we can have a big hit such as PS2/nintendo ds with over 150 milions units sold, runing linux, and that still dont change much of windows marketshare.
its a bit sad, but at least microsoft wont put all their money into trying to prevent that linux momentum, they will see it as an competition for the xbox division only, and only use the money from this division to try to compete, instead of the money of the entire windows/office/azure mamon-machine.

so i can see they still suporting linux with gamepass/xcloud

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: ExpandingManWhile I don't think it matters very much anymore whether a game is linux native or windows native (a huge accomplishment to be sure), it still matters whether a game uses DX or Vulkan, and Vulkan adoption has been worryingly slow.

I fear that second bit is directly related to the first, which is one reason I am against the 'who cares if native' camp. As long as devs keep getting told it doesn't matter or that we don't want or need native versions, they're not likely to spend the time and money to switch their tools and environments to use Vulkan or other APIs that would make both native or Proton compatibility better; unfortunately even Valve seems to be selling Proton as 'just continue with DirectX and MS APIs'.

i think we can incentive developers by buying Dlcs for their games if they are native, or buying at full price instead of waiting for sales

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Quoting: ExpandingManI *think* it is the case that the main reason why developers choose not to provide it as an option even if they are using Unreal or unity and for them it basically boils down to a compile option is that these developers still care way more about old windows machines using graphics cards that can't support vulkan than they do about linux.

probably it take a lot of time to compile, and "double" the executables size.

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Quoting: denyasis2). Linux being open source, it simply can't be tossed out, the way Microsoft or Apple can get rid of stuff since it's all in house.

i disagree, android has proven that its possible.
but i dont think valve has the resource to pull an android aproach, nor that they will even try.

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so, here is the alphabet soup...

in order to understand this article, you need to solve the dependences of the folowing vocabulary:

• Steam


• Chrome OS


• Linux


• desktop


• Native build


• Windows builds with Proton.


• Steam Play Proton


• virtual machines!


• Crostini


• virtual machine monitor (VMM), crosvm⁠


• container


• layer of security


• Crostini, Android, and Parallels


• Steam Deck


• Arch Linux / debian


• Borealis


• VM invisible to the user – from both an operational and from a performance perspective


• "Linux's KVM⁠ hypervisor


• paravirtualized virtio-based devices


• emulation


• vulkan


• Vulkan virtualization driver - "Venus


• core graphics and display pipeline,


• applications support Vulkan and OpenGL using Mesa drivers


• XWayland


• sommelier


• proxying Wayland compositor


• "exo" which is their own Wayland display server.


• VM being read-only


• read-write partition for data


• upstream

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Quoting: LinasThat is why I said on a global scale [External Link]. Also the fact remains that only the high end Chromebooks will be able to run Steam.

dude, chromebooks are marketed in a few regions only, and they are already more popular than linux in the entire world, imagine when google start marketing then world wide, currently its focused on the most profitable markets, once it get enough marketshare there google will try elsewhere.

also, high end today are the low ends of tomorrow, in the near future those high ends will be the midle ends and in the long term they will be the cheapest options, google will not make steam exclusive to high end models of their chromebooks forever, soon or later every chromebook on the market will be able to run steam.

Quoting: LinasI am not trying to say that Chrome OS is less relevant than desktop Linux, because in the big picture they are both miniscule. It's just that Chrome OS and desktop Linux don't overlap all that much.

im not saying linux users will give up on traditional linux distros to use chromeOS, the issue is that chromeOS might become as popular as windows or android, without that benefiting other distros, hell it might even be more locked down than windows.

Quoting: LinasGoogle are setting themselves up for the worst case scenario here. Anyone who tried gaming in a VM knows how janky that can be. Input device passthrough, GPU virtualization, etc. all have caveats. Also they are using Wayland, which still has issues with Proton. Not only that, they are making their own Wayland server, their own drivers, their own VM software, none of which is relevant on desktop Linux. Neither is it in any way representative of a desktop Linux system when it comes to game compatibility and testing for developers.

in other words, their system will be an exotic system compared to every other distro, just like android, can you see the issue now?
currently is relatively easy to run windows games on linux, and many other softwares too, it might be harder to run chromeOS exclusives on other linux distros than windows software.

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Quoting: Linas

Quoting: elmapuli dont like how any of this sounds,android didnt helped linux desktop, instead it created its own ecosystem

I don't think this will have any big impact on desktop Linux at all. On a global scale there are about as many Chrome OS users as there are desktop Linux users. And even then, only selected few Chromebooks will be able to run Steam, so even a smaller userbase. If anything it seems that Google is trying to catch up with the desktop Linux, not the other way round.

nope, looks like you are will informed.

a lot of stats show chromebook marketshare already surpased all other linux desktops.
keep in mind that this is concentrated on only a few regions, where google heavly promoted then, i remember that chromebooks were on the "best seling" devices from amazon-usa for a few weeks or months, im not sure the category i think it was laptops.

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what an alphabet soup, it sound like an over complicated work arround...

i dont like how any of this sounds,android didnt helped linux desktop, instead it created its own ecosystem , and nowadays its painfull to run android apps on desktop linux and linux softwares on android.
hell its easier to find an good android emulator for windows than for linux.

and now with chromeOS, i can see the samething happening again, i can understand the security argument, but we always trusted the comunity to make an safe system, chromeOS seem to be more closed than android or even windows in that regard.

it help nothing that the games on googleplay are basically 'free ads for the true product, in game itens' i want linux to grow at the desktop, but not to get something worse than windows.

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that game is a bit iconic...
https://www.savingcontent.com/2015/11/13/alienwares-steam-machine-bundle-to-include-war-thunder-and-free-dlc-at-launch/ [External Link]

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Quoting: PublicNuisanceI'm not understanding the comment. Are you saying that Epic should only make the Unreal engine FOSS if the FOSS market were able to compete ? If so what does that even mean ?

how can i say it?
we're always assuming that the open source development model is better at everything, well, i dont doubt that an product that earn 1 million/month of dolars and it is open source, will be MUCH better than an proprietary software earning the same money.

the issue is, its much harder to make that ammount of money in the open source development model.
open source being less profitable is a big reason for then to not change their business model, and the other is that the ammount of money this model produces is what made those softwares possible to begin with.
i can count the days i have waited for make human to evolve, they started from scratch and surpassed it a lot in an shorter ammount of time.
why should they change their business model?

TL:DR
if we need epic to relase their code to have something that good as open source, that dont prove the point that we arent capable of doing it ourselves?
and if we are capable of doing it, why should they?

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