Quoting: Philadelphus

Quoting: AshenPaladinI don't know if Linus was playing a role

Given that in the second video in the series out today he admitted to blindly trying to use apt on his new Manjaro system without realizing it uses pacman instead, I'm going to go with "not playing a role". :grin:

Yeah, that cracked me up. I also watched a reaction video where he tried what Linus did, as he said somehow the ap-get line kept repeating... he couldn't get it to do that.

I have been curious about wikis still using apt-get instead of apt. I know some were not liking that it simply wasn't 'apt install' like you have 'yum install' as 'apt-get $packagename' made more sense to them than 'apt-get install $packagename' and they hated Debian for that... but I keep telling them that was when people recommended 'aptitude install'. Apt as a simple command has been around a long time, I believe apt-get sticks around only for legacy wikis...

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Quoting: Philadelphus

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.

But that's how you learn!!

I hate to break this to you, so how do I put it gently...not everyone wants to learn. Or, more accurately (and charitably), not everyone wants to learn the same stuff. And I don't think that's a failing on their part. Like, I don't find sports or makeup techniques interesting, but I don't judge those who want to learn about them in hopes that they extend the same courtesy to me.

I get it. You think learning about the internals of computers is fascinating. My new day job is programming, so I sort of understand. I like learning about computers too. But I like to do it of my own volition, not because I'm forced to in order to do some task that should take 30 seconds but has instead required an evening of Googling and scouring old forums and Stack Exchange threads. That's not fun learning for me, nor, I'm willing to bet, most people.

Most people aren't interested in how computers work, they just want them to work. Similarly, if my car starts making a funny noise, I'm going to take it to a mechanic rather than start digging around inside, because learning more about the specifics of how it works doesn't interest me. I'd rather put that time towards learning things that do; I've got a list as long as my arm (and ever-growing) of things that I'd like to be learning, and every hour spent getting my Linux machine working again is an hour not spent on something I'd rather be doing.

Just as I don't think we should, say, restrict the autonomy of driving an automobile to mechanics who can build one from parts, neither should we keep people from using (operating systems built around) the best kernel out there just because they don't know how to use the terminal and don't care to learn. If they want to learn more, fine; Linux'll let you do that in spades! If they want to continue using it to surf the web and watch movies without ever touching a terminal, also fine. At least they're using a freer, more secure, OS and not having to spend as much of their hard-earned money on it, and I think it's an admirable goal to expand those benefits to as many people as possible.

This just makes me wish Atari had succeeded with their ST line of computers. They finally got multitasking figured out, but really the OS was so very simple to use "A monkey could use it" to quote the sales guy in 1992.
Operating systems have become a big complicated mess. But terminal usage I think is NOT something that people should shy away from.

An actual conversation I had with a mac user when talking to him about a series of videos I saw about a guy switching to macOS from Windows. In the first video, the guy complained that Finder doesn't show transfer speeds when copying files. Mac user said just use the terminal if you need transfer speeds. Or why would you even need that. Should be an option under a 'more details' thing, I would think.
Next video, the guy was saying there is no 'cut' in finder, and (much like the aforementioned Atari ST) it is a different key combination when you paste that will move the file instead of copy. On GEM, you hold down either Alt or Control and drag the file (one moves and one renames the file at destination, you hold both to do both.)

One thing I love in Gnome that is missing from Windows is being able to hold the super key and move windows.

All computer operating systems suck in one way or another. But Windows users specifically have been taught all of their lives that a terminal is either DOS or dangerous. So to expect a long time Windows user to understand the power that a terminal in Linux, or macOS even is a little crazy. Especially when they are so called 'Power Users' that have learned bad habits.

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: eldarion

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: eldarionNexusMM

Which doesn't officially support Linux ;)

Jesus Christ Liam. As a Linux user, are you really that afraid of a zip file? Just extract it to the override directory and that's it :)

What a dumb comment, no I am not. I simply mentioned in the article about perhaps making it easier for users. You then mentioned two ways that actually don't, so I replied to them.

The fun thing qbout cross platform games and mods is that there are some that actually need to be recompiled specifically for Linux. For example, the AnyPortal mod for Valheim needs a special version.
Mod support is definitely better if you can just click 'subscribe' in Steam Workshop.

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Quoting: whizse

Quoting: slaapliedjeI had a wizard I played all the way from 1st to 14th.. Then got sort of stuck... and then of course lost my save game so I have to start over on the main campaign... At least now I think they have cloud saves!

Oh dear. That's a whole bucket of bummerballs!

I decided to to go for a fighter and aim for weapons master later. It seems to be a safe beginners choice.

So the secret was to have a Pixie familiar. She'd fly off to find / disarm traps, and for the first few levels was better at killing things than I was. It mostly consisted of me going into the ruins, killing a thing or dying, and then saving after a fight, then onto the next until I started gaining levels to live longer.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.

But that's how you learn!!

I don't care!
You learn lots of ways. I learn many things by reading books.

Wish I could make you read the Pathfinder 2e books for me so I wouldn't have to read them myself. 😜

Sorry, filled up recently on D&D 5th edition. I was amazed . . . it's actually got less skills and day to day utility magic, you know, for doing non-kill kind of stuff, than later bits of old school AD&D 1st edition. In other ways I was surprised just how little has changed. Rules a bit more consistent, a couple of interesting new character classes and mechanics, fighters get a few tactical options, multi-classing is basically dead because it was OP as hell, some quirky flavour lost, but basically, it's still D&D.

Ha, I only started buying PF2e books because Humble Bundle had a cheap physical copy of the Bestiary. Trying to convince someone else to GM Pathfinder, he asked if we could just do 'Homebrew' now to me that means either A) Programs for computers past their prime, or B) just make up your own rules, which then why use PF2e? But he meant for the Campaign setting.

Now in my mind, D&D and Pathfinder are both very much tied to their campaign setting(s). With their races or ancestries, whatever they want to call them. And their classes, etc. The entire way the games work seem very much built to exist within certain realms. Now could you use the systems to make up your own worlds and such? Sure... but GURPS in it's very nature is great at such things, as it's built more as a framework / tool kit for role-playing, vs something like D&D and Pathfinder, where their logic and consistency isn't exactly tied to any sort of realism, ans fit much better within their own realms. It's like trying to imagine doing something realistic and science-y with Spelljammer. :P

Sorry, I know this is WAY off topic!

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.

But that's how you learn!!

I don't care!
You learn lots of ways. I learn many things by reading books.

Wish I could make you read the Pathfinder 2e books for me so I wouldn't have to read them myself. 😜

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Quoting: SirBubbles

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: whizseBoy did they release this right on time, I was planning to start my first ever playthrough this evening!

I had a wizard I played all the way from 1st to 14th.. Then got sort of stuck... and then of course lost my save game so I have to start over on the main campaign... At least now I think they have cloud saves!

Based on my very old experience with what passes for NWN's single player, is it still even worth it? I thought everyone did NWN for the mods or expansion packs. Hordes of the Underdark was pretty decent, if I recall.

I must be weird, I liked the original campaign qnd thought it was decent. Hordes of the Underdark I belive was the sequel to it, qnd you had to start at a higher level.

What is a crying shame is that Legends of the Swordcoast (i think that was the name of that game) was so far from being a proper replacement for NWN.

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Quoting: whizseBoy did they release this right on time, I was planning to start my first ever playthrough this evening!

I had a wizard I played all the way from 1st to 14th.. Then got sort of stuck... and then of course lost my save game so I have to start over on the main campaign... At least now I think they have cloud saves!

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Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: eldarionNexusMM

Which doesn't officially support Linux ;)

Liam, always having our backs. Yeah there is a modmanager I found that supports Linux, but it's... not great. :P

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sudo apt update                                                                                                        
Hit:1 http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye InRelease
Get:2 http://deb.debian.org/debian bullseye-updates InRelease [39.4 kB]
Get:3 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security InRelease [44.1 kB]
Get:4 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports InRelease [43.7 kB]
Get:5 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security/main amd64 Packages [94.0 kB]
Get:6 http://security.debian.org/debian-security bullseye-security/main Translation-en [59.6 kB]
Get:7 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main amd64 Packages.diff/Index [63.3 kB]
Get:8 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main Translation-en.diff/Index [27.4 kB]
Get:9 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main all Contents (deb).diff/Index [63.6 kB]
Get:10 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main amd64 Contents (deb).diff/Index [35.3 kB]
Get:11 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/contrib amd64 Packages.diff/Index [4,995 B]
Get:12 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main amd64 Packages T-2021-11-22-2006.12-F-2021-11-12-2001.29.pdiff [24.2 kB]
Get:12 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main amd64 Packages T-2021-11-22-2006.12-F-2021-11-12-2001.29.pdiff [24.2 kB]
Get:13 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main Translation-en T-2021-11-22-1406.11-F-2021-11-13-2001.35.pdiff [15.0 kB]
Get:13 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main Translation-en T-2021-11-22-1406.11-F-2021-11-13-2001.35.pdiff [15.0 kB]
Get:14 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main all Contents (deb) T-2021-11-22-2006.12-F-2021-11-13-1401.28.pdiff [298 kB]
Get:14 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main all Contents (deb) T-2021-11-22-2006.12-F-2021-11-13-1401.28.pdiff [298 kB]
Get:15 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main amd64 Contents (deb) T-2021-11-22-2006.12-F-2021-11-13-2001.35.pdiff [12.5 kB]
Get:15 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main amd64 Contents (deb) T-2021-11-22-2006.12-F-2021-11-13-2001.35.pdiff [12.5 kB]
Get:16 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/contrib amd64 Packages T-2021-11-15-2014.49-F-2021-11-15-2014.49.pdiff [257 B]
Get:16 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/contrib amd64 Packages T-2021-11-15-2014.49-F-2021-11-15-2014.49.pdiff [257 B]
Get:17 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main amd64 Packages [138 kB]
Get:18 http://ftp.debian.org/debian bullseye-backports/main Translation-en [102 kB]
Fetched 1,066 kB in 25s (42.5 kB/s)
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
36 packages can be upgraded. Run 'apt list --upgradable' to see them.
sudo apt upgrade                                                                                                       ─╯
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree... Done
Reading state information... Done
Calculating upgrade... Done
The following packages will be upgraded:
  bind9-dnsutils bind9-host bind9-libs dnsutils ffmpeg ffmpeg-doc gir1.2-javascriptcoregtk-4.0 gir1.2-webkit2-4.0
  libavcodec58 libavdevice58 libavfilter7 libavformat58 libavresample4 libavutil56 libjavascriptcoregtk-4.0-18 libldb2
  libpostproc55 libpq5 libsmbclient libswresample3 libswscale5 libwbclient0 libwebkit2gtk-4.0-37 node-tar openjdk-11-demo
  openjdk-11-doc openjdk-11-jdk openjdk-11-jdk-headless openjdk-11-jre openjdk-11-jre-headless openjdk-11-source
  python3-ldb redis-server redis-tools samba-libs tzdata
36 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Need to get 373 MB of archives.
After this operation, 1,827 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]

Not sure exactly how this is a 'wall of text'. Now if he'd done apt update;apt upgrade like any web site should show for installing Steam, it wouldn't have been a problem. With an 'upgrade' it'll only say 'Kept back' or 'Upgraded'. If he did a dist-upgrade, or an install with conflicts, it'll warn about any removals and ask. In this particular instance it really did give a warning that he was about to bork his system. People have argued about 'potentially harmful' not being strong enough wording. But it's accurate. It only is potentially harmful to the system, he could hae recovered. It wasn't like it was 'oh my god, if you do this, you're going to have to boot from a live system and repair or start a new install!'

Anyhow I mostly posted this to show you can shorten your commands to just 'apt' instead of 'apt-get' :)

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