Quoting: drlamb

Quoting: Mountain Man

The premium edition of the game allows for "early access" starting September 1st.

Ah, okay. Not sure it's worth an extra $40 just to play the game a few days early.

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Wait, how are you guys playing Starfield already? The Steam store page says it doesn't release until September 5.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: Mountain ManI never implied that you were stupid. You came up with that yourself.

Quoting: Mountain ManFrankly, I don't have a problem with randomly clicking around the desktop

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Quoting: Mountain ManBut we're not talking about anything like that, we're talking about activities like navigating files and directories in Dolphin where the user's chances of doing anything catastrophic that would warrant an "Are you sure?" prompt are essentially zero.

No, it isn't just about catastrophic consequences...
I think this has proven sufficiently you really don't understand the argument and after trying twice with increasing detail, I apparently suck at explaining it and I don't know how else to try.
Might as well stop here.

Sometimes it's best to quit when you're behind. :happy:

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Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: Mountain ManFrankly, I don't have a problem with randomly clicking around the desktop and unintentionally opening stuff, but based on your argument, nothing in a user interface should be accessible with a single click, and yet, it's standard to be able to open menu items with one click, or toggle a button in something like Libre Office with one click.

I don't think you really understood the argument.

It's cool that you are so perfect that you never make such an easy to make mistake, but for the rest of us, well...

Why do you think games ask you "Do you really want to overwrite/load/delete save X?" ?
Not because people would be too dumb to understand that clicking the load/delete/etc. button would actually load/delete/etc.
Not because people click around at random (but thanks for going "ur so stoopid randomly clicking around LOL").
Because it is normal that people trigger a single click on stuff without intending to. It just happens. Not often, obviously, but it does and it is annoying when it does.

For me it happens most often when I bump my mouse into something on the desk. :whistle:

So when an action would be very disruptive (like accidentally opening a file) or even harmful and not easily undone and when basically every single action would be like that (such as interacting with folders and files in a file browser), then you make the default harder to trigger by accident.

When you navigate a browser or operate most menus, most single click actions are not like described above at all, so it is fine to have them activate by single click. The few that are disruptive can then be "caught" with these confirmations.

I never implied that you were stupid. You came up with that yourself.

As for programs that ask "Are you sure?" before allowing the user to do something potentially destructive and irreversible, that's more to warn about the consequences of an intended action than it is to protect against accidental clicks, and good interface design will build in additional safeguards, such as burying the feature two levels deep in a menu where the user has to go through a series of specific steps to access it.

But we're not talking about anything like that, we're talking about activities like navigating files and directories in Dolphin where the user's chances of doing anything catastrophic that would warrant an "Are you sure?" prompt are essentially zero.

Face it, standard desktop behavior requiring a double click is the "odd man out" in computer interface design.

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Quoting: TheSHEEEP

Quoting: Mountain ManSingle click to open is the right way as far as I'm concerned. It just makes the most sense when you consider that the interface in every other piece of software you use on a computer only requires single clicks, so why should the desktop be the sole exception?

It is rather easy to accidentally do a single click.
Happens to me quite often.

Usually, nothing happens as the cursor isn't really on top of anything.
When that opens a link, it doesn't really matter, just go back quickly.
When that opens an entire program, that's a massive problem as it'll likely take focus away, might make the PC slower for a moment, forces you to close that program again, etc.

When you accidentally select something, that's not really a problem.
Accidentally double clicking is not something that really happens.

And what makes the most sense in practice is what most people are used to, not something that might or might not make sense in a bubble detached from that reality.
Especially when the difference in usage isn't that big (like the time difference of a double vs single click).

Frankly, I don't have a problem with randomly clicking around the desktop and unintentionally opening stuff, but based on your argument, nothing in a user interface should be accessible with a single click, and yet, it's standard to be able to open menu items with one click, or toggle a button in something like Libre Office with one click. The only exception is the desktop. I know it's what people are used to because that's how UI designers made it back in the dark ages of computer interface design, but in my opinion, they got it wrong.

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Quoting: bingus

Quoting: Mountain ManSingle click to open is the right way as far as I'm concerned. It just makes the most sense when you consider that the interface in every other piece of software you use on a computer only requires single clicks, so why should the desktop be the sole exception?

Because of Windows. I grew up on Windows, and first experienced single click in KDE when trying to select a file. I thought my mouse button was super sensitive or something.

Windows does it wrong.

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Single click to open is the right way as far as I'm concerned. It just makes the most sense when you consider that the interface in every other piece of software you use on a computer only requires single clicks, so why should the desktop be the sole exception?

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I thought this game was just a novelty, but it's surprisingly challenging.

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I've never been a fan of needing specialized drivers for common peripherals.

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This is the one problem I have with Proton, that other companies can break it, and it falls on Valve to fix it. I have trouble believing this will be sustainable over the long-term.

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