Quoting: constHad to set a kernel option for it to work.

Which option did you set?

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Quoting: tuubiWell that's a stretch.

I don't understand what you mean.

Quoting: tuubiYou might as well compare piracy to car theft. We're talking about crime after all.

That doesn't help me in understanding. I'm really talking about license violations (e.g. using Linux without providing the source code).

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Quoting: tuubiI don't see how. Downloading or sharing open source software doesn't violate its license.

We're talking about "piracy" (i.e. license violations), so obviously by using it in violation of the license.

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Quoting: Guesthttps://www.gamesindustry.biz/denuvo-investigation-reportedly-leads-to-arrest-for-games-pirate-voksi

Since the article is behind a paywall: Does it contain any other content than this article? https://www.pcgamer.com/denuvo-sues-voski-the-pirate-who-helped-crack-it/ [External Link]

Since the latter doesn't contain any outcome, just that the cracker was in fact not arrested & would probably face charges.

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Quoting: tuubiLegally it is, yeah. But ethically... maybe?

In case you download something you'd have bought otherwise, or sell copies of someone else's property, sure it's theft. However, if you weren't going to pay for it anyway, then what? How can it be theft if nobody loses anything? Or if it actually has the effect of increasing sales, as shown by the famous EU studies on the subject of piracy. But never mind, this topic has been discussed to death already.

Wouldn't this argument legitimate all open source license violations?

Nobody would pay for it anyway. True
Nobody loses anything. True
Has a positive effect on sales? It's not sold in the first place. But it gets used more.

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Quoting: GuestMoreover, I am skeptical of the "pro-consumer claims" that people have of the EU. I heard that some crack scene groups got sent to prison in Germany for tampering with Denuvo, if anything thats anticonsumer

You surely can provide a source about the Denuvo case?

Besides: Pro-consumer doesn't mean anything goes. Everything is based in the current laws.

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Quoting: s01itudeWell thanks for explaining that to me, but this is exactly what I was alluding to. To you the same software isn't the same software if it's been changed, but to Pengling the same software-but-changed is the same software. And frankly I'd side with Pengling because what they explained in that quote doesn't sound like some repository fork, but rather just changing flags to off (again I'm going purely off that quote, if that's not what they actually did I have no point of reference for that).

As explained, the same software produces different anti-cheat based on the environment. That's like the same image or video encoder producing different results/compression based on user configuration. And as quoted, it was confirmed by the developers that it was different (less & therefore worse). And if you re-read the rest of the previous news you'll find out why Wine is or will be blocked by the anti-cheat: They'll remove or disable the special handling because it's a maintenance burden.

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Quoting: s01itudePerhaps there's a bit of pedantry/semantics in what I'm about to say, but frankly that's the importance of it anyway.

"we had to disable many antitamper checks to make Hyperion run on wine" actually (I'll be honest that I didn't read the article nor do I care to) that sentence in and of itself does not disprove Pengling's statment about using the same anti-cheat and allowing it through wine. In fact it lines up with what he's saying.

Saying they had to disable functions to make it run on wine actually implies it's the same anticheat (again I dont know if Hyperion is the same software they were using before, just going off your specific quote), and furthermore shows they had to do things to allow it to work with wine which is further in line with what Pengling states.

Now to my point about the importance of semantics, I suspect that your definition of "same anti-cheat" is probably different than Penglings, otherwise you wouldn't have use a quote that actually supports their statement in order to counter their statement. Given how your previous discussion went, as well, I'd suggest coming to equal terms with others on what you specifically mean with each term because otherwise you end up in meaningless discussion that will come to no resolution other than frustration.

Discussion is unproductive if the people involved cannot agree on the definitions of the core terms being discussed.

They use less checks in the Wine version. This is what I'd call different anti-cheat. Just because it's the same software doesn't mean it's the same code running. Especially in the context of its domain (preventing cheats), what's running in Wine is, according to the developers, a worse version.

It's like the Linux kernel: It's always the same software but based on the build (or in case of specialised builds even the system it is running on) it behaves differently (e.g. missing drivers). Up to the point to which the versions may be incompatible (e.g. Android vs GNU/Linux).

Quoting: NociferWhat's this, a schoolyard debate? This is not me being rude, this is me being exasperated by your own rudeness.

And that's the real issue here. You don't see it because you actually don't have a clue about what "being rude" actually means, and what it feels like to those on the receiving end of uncalled-for rudeness. I think you're overdue for some serious social reeducation.

It's just too funny. Just stop lecturing people, you're just really awful at it.

To conclude: If I'd say I was exasperated by the comment I could simply claim I wasn't rude? I mean, that's exactly what you're doing.

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Quoting: PenglingThey were using the same anti-cheat and allowing it through Wine before. This is mentioned in the article.

No, they were not. That's mentioned in the previous article.

We can probably say a final goodbye to Roblox on Linux with Wine soon

Additionally, we had to disable many antitamper checks to make Hyperion run on Wine.

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Quoting: CybolicYou were rude in presenting Purple Library Guy's argument as if they were claiming to post fact and you had step in to disprove them.

That's not true. I specifically acknowledged that it was pure speculation.

Quoting: poiuzThat's a lot of speculation about something you have no idea about.

Quoting: Cybolicchose to present yourself as morally superior and more factually correct

My speculation is based on what the Roblox developer are claiming, what Wine developers are saying & what the Wine code is implementing.

Quoting: Cybolicwhich is rude, since you didn't have any basis for it and there was no need to be confrontational about it.

I wasn't confrontational. And my basis is that I know it being wrong.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyAs I recall, originally it was just that I had no right to speculate without knowledge

I never denied the right speculate. I pointed out that you speculate about things you admitted have no idea about. You were speculating about what the Roblox developers are doing can't work. How could you know any of this if you don't even know how it all works?

Quoting: Purple Library Guywhich is stupid given that not having knowledge is the prerequisite for speculation.

No, prerequisite is to have a basis for speculation. Which you don't have, by own admission.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyNow you're saying I'd made false statements--which I had not, since everything I had said was either asking questions or suggesting possibilities, not making positive claims. It's particularly amusing that you are now saying the possibilities I suggested were "false" since elsewhere you say you don't know the truth of it, so presumably you can't know if anything I said was false. Go take a logic class.

No, I said I don't know exactly how Wine is used by cheat developers. But I know what you were saying is wrong. I wouldn't have commented on it if I didn't know this.

You seem to think it's just a simple check in Roblox which can be circumvented. The check & message are just for convenience there to inform about the incompatibility. But the actual blocking will be happening by the anti-cheat software. This can't be circumvented, as we know from other games. The necessary APIs aren't even implemented in Wine.

Quoting: Purple Library GuySo then you go on to say that I spun a conspiracy

Yeah, sorry. I did mix up comments from different users. I edited the comment accordingly.

Quoting: Purple Library GuyHave a nice day, and consider taking some reading and critical thinking classes.

Have a nice day, too. I hope you follow your own advise.

Quoting: Nociferthe way they chose to express their opinion would still be rude as fscking hell.

Goddammit, why is it so hard for people to be kind to each other?

Nice joke. Why are you rude now? Stop being a morale apostle if you can't uphold your own standards.

I still don't see my initial post as being rude.

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