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Fedora Workstation 41 will drop GNOME X.Org session as fallback option

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While defaulting to Wayland since version 25 of Fedora Workstation (GNOME), and Fedora version 34 for the KDE Plasma Desktop spin, this Linux distribution intends to completely ditch X.Org session as fallback for GNOME on release 41.

Quoting Jens Petersen from the change number 414 of fedora-workstation Pague

Fedora Workstation WG discussed this today and we agreed we should do this for Fedora 41, since it is really too late already for F40 and it should really be handled as a System Wide Change anyway.

Based on that message we can conclude that while it is too late to have that change merged into Fedora 40, it is likely that this will be the default for Fedora 41, making GNOME completely bound to Wayland with no X.Org fallback.

While one user on that same discussion stated that screen reader users will still rely on the X11 session because of some GNOME bugs, it is likely that any software still using X11 by default will not be distributed with the installation ISO as pointed out by Neal Gompa.

Other than that, no matter if you are an NVIDIA, Intel or AMD user, this might be a really good move starting with Fedora because GNOME developers can focus on fixing existing Wayland bugs instead of wasting time with three layers (X.Org, Wayland and in some cases XWayland).

The ChangeSet page for that Fedora 41 was not updated with this change as per the date of this article.

Article taken from GamingOnLinux.com.
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Jarmer Mar 7
this is wonderful news. I hope more distros follow suit.
melkemind Mar 7
After using Wayland for a couple of years, I could never go back to X.
I always wondered. What's in it for the end-user ? (Wayland)

I mean, I'm aware it has a much more modern architecture since Xorg codebase dates back to the 90s, but I heard it still had tons of problems with NVIDIA's proprietary GPU driver.

As a gamer myself, I wonder what could be the consequences of such a bold move.
WYW Mar 7
Quoting: ssj17vegetaI always wondered. What's in it for the end-user ? (Wayland)

I mean, I'm aware it has a much more modern architecture since Xorg codebase dates back to the 90s, but I heard it still had tons of problems with NVIDIA's proprietary GPU driver.

As a gamer myself, I wonder what could be the consequences of such a bold move.
I'm also a little worried about my Nvidia GPU in a world with no X11, but from what I've read newer Linux kernels 6.6.7+ and Nvidia driver 550+ fixes a lot of the Wayland issues. Over the next year or two things should only get better.

Then there is the new open source Nvidia Vulkan driver (that also does openGL) which is shaping up great and AFAIK it should work well with Wayland.


Last edited by WYW on 7 March 2024 at 5:13 pm UTC
Well, I'm sure there will be some pain points, but it's Fedora . . . going a bit experimental to push things forward is their thing, and we'll probably all benefit in the long run.
Minux Mar 7
Quoting: WYW
Quoting: ssj17vegetaI always wondered. What's in it for the end-user ? (Wayland)

I mean, I'm aware it has a much more modern architecture since Xorg codebase dates back to the 90s, but I heard it still had tons of problems with NVIDIA's proprietary GPU driver.

As a gamer myself, I wonder what could be the consequences of such a bold move.
I'm also a little worried about my Nvidia GPU in a world with no X11, but from what I've read newer Linux kernels 6.6.7+ and Nvidia driver 550+ fixes a lot of the Wayland issues. Over the next year or two things should only get better.

Then there is the new open source Nvidia Vulkan driver (that also does openGL) which is shaping up great and AFAIK it should work well with Wayland.

I really think the only counterpart on it is for the ones we have Nvidia. As I already mentioned on another post, to me the last stable driver was 535. After that, everything has been a nightmare on Wayland. There are a lot of people also posting on Nvidia forums. Nvidia devs are all the times saying there's a fix, but 545 and 550 have come with drawbacks, so I don't really see where are the fixes they're always talking about.

I can't stop to think whenever I get the money I'm leaving Nvidia. They're really slowing down Linux in terms of technology. Wayland is really cool, and I feel better using it knowing it's more polished and not predatory as how it's designed.
CatKiller Mar 7
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Quoting: ssj17vegetaI always wondered. What's in it for the end-user ? (Wayland)

Support for multiple monitors of varying refresh rates, HDR support, and eliminating round trips between the display server and the compositor because the compositor is the display server are the headline desirable features.

The first two only really came about during the long, long development of Wayland, admittedly, and the primary motivation wasn't about features, but just that everyone that was capable of doing anything with Xorg no longer wanted to do anything with Xorg.
Raaben Mar 7
I think the only remaining pain point for me personally with Gnome and Wayland is the lack of PTT in Discord. It's the only thing I have to regularly fall back to an X session for - I know there are a few hacky workarounds but since most if not all of the servers I am in enforce PTT, just having a mic un/muted won't work for me. I won't even lie, being able to work around that is one reason I keep looking at running KDE at least for a while.
melkemind Mar 7
Quoting: WYW
Quoting: ssj17vegetaI always wondered. What's in it for the end-user ? (Wayland)

I mean, I'm aware it has a much more modern architecture since Xorg codebase dates back to the 90s, but I heard it still had tons of problems with NVIDIA's proprietary GPU driver.

As a gamer myself, I wonder what could be the consequences of such a bold move.
I'm also a little worried about my Nvidia GPU in a world with no X11, but from what I've read newer Linux kernels 6.6.7+ and Nvidia driver 550+ fixes a lot of the Wayland issues. Over the next year or two things should only get better.

Then there is the new open source Nvidia Vulkan driver (that also does openGL) which is shaping up great and AFAIK it should work well with Wayland.

This is totally speculation, but I believe Valve is preparing a general release of SteamOS, one that can run on other handhelds, desktops and living room boxes. In order to do that, they need a working Nvidia driver. I would guess they're more interested in getting the open source driver working well with games than having to deal with Nvidia's proprietary one, which they wouldn't be able to ship with their OS. Given that, Wayland support should be in line with the open source AMD drivers once it's ready.

If what I'm saying turns out to be true, the only question is: when will it be ready?
Quoting: melkemind
Quoting: WYW
Quoting: ssj17vegetaI always wondered. What's in it for the end-user ? (Wayland)

I mean, I'm aware it has a much more modern architecture since Xorg codebase dates back to the 90s, but I heard it still had tons of problems with NVIDIA's proprietary GPU driver.

As a gamer myself, I wonder what could be the consequences of such a bold move.
I'm also a little worried about my Nvidia GPU in a world with no X11, but from what I've read newer Linux kernels 6.6.7+ and Nvidia driver 550+ fixes a lot of the Wayland issues. Over the next year or two things should only get better.

Then there is the new open source Nvidia Vulkan driver (that also does openGL) which is shaping up great and AFAIK it should work well with Wayland.

This is totally speculation, but I believe Valve is preparing a general release of SteamOS, one that can run on other handhelds, desktops and living room boxes. In order to do that, they need a working Nvidia driver. I would guess they're more interested in getting the open source driver working well with games than having to deal with Nvidia's proprietary one, which they wouldn't be able to ship with their OS. Given that, Wayland support should be in line with the open source AMD drivers once it's ready.

If what I'm saying turns out to be true, the only question is: when will it be ready?

That's a interesting postulate,

I'm curious why do you think this would be strategically in Valve's interest? How would they stand to benefit? And Are there any observable behaviors or things in the news that align with this hypothesis?

Genuinely curious, no pressure or need to even answer at all, I just found the concept intriguing.
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