Quoting: tuubiAnd immediately you do something silly. Why would you not use the distro provided packages instead?

Please, stop discussing other's silliness when you do not have all information at hand, OK?
Just this time, I will explain. There are reasons:

• My main distro (Fedora) has some strange ideas about license purity (or just plain bad taste), so distro-provided software is often assembled with multiple functions disabled;


• Even if the previous isn't the case, often distro-provided software is not up to date (this is true with basically every distro for some package or another) and manual downloading from developer is the first solution;


• It was you who made a statement that "*.deb" distribution is totally intuitive and Quote "Last time I tried, deb files were handled correctly in both Ubuntu and Mint, as their default "software stores" and (my preferred alternative) the gdebi-gtk helper application are both perfectly capable of checking and downloading dependencies." End Of Quote (Remember those words?), so I showed an example where it is totally not the case.

Quoting: tuubiYou're just looking for trouble here, even going for a huge piece of software that's bound to get complicated, then failing to follow the install guide [External Link] provided by the developer. Sure, the install process is needlessly user-hostile (if you consider going to the terminal a big no-no), but that's entirely up to them, not the package management system.

OK, using the link… reading:

Open a terminal.
Change the current directory to the location of the .deb packages:
cd ~/Downloads/LibreOffice_6.0.x_Linux_x86_deb/DEBS

or for the 64 bits version:
cd ~/Downloads/LibreOffice_6.0.x_Linux_x86-64_deb/DEBS

(No need to write everything: use Tab ↹ to autocomplete the command line, or copy and paste with the middle-click mouse button)

Finally, install all .deb packages:
sudo dpkg -i *.deb

First, a terminal! For a newbie, yeah, that should work just fine!
Second, I did exactly as was described!
What was your point in calling me doing silly actions or looking for trouble? This somehow was meant to prove your point of "DEB/RPM" distribution being intuitive and user-friendly? Or are you thinking I am stupid? Sorry, I do not get the point there. And I am not amused! :><:

Quoting: tuubiCan't decide, huh? You imagine games would keep updating their libs if they provided their own?

Yes, they would. I see no technical difficulties for software to download and overwrite its own components, like this is done by Firefox and (was done while it was active) "Battle Worlds: Kronos", for example.

Quoting: tuubiThe runtime was a semi-successful attempt at providing a stable target "standard library" for games to rely on. The implementation is far from perfect, but game devs are not forced to make use of it so why not.

It was never successful. One of the most common solutions on Steam to launch the game that does not work (because of the Steam Runtime libraries are incompatible with current kernels and system libs) is to run Steam in "Native" mode. And developers time and again acknowledged in their interviews that while at the beginning they were trying to target SteamOS™ (with its software) at the end they found out it was easier to just target Ubuntu.

Quoting: tuubiAnd I remember very well how much you love Steam from previous comment threads. :P

Whethe I like Steam or not is irrelevant to this topic. :S:

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Quoting: tuubiLast time I tried, deb files were handled correctly in both Ubuntu and Mint, as their default "software stores" and (my preferred alternative) the gdebi-gtk helper application are both perfectly capable of checking and downloading dependencies. And of course they won't let you install a package with broken deps. They also check and notify if a newer package is available in the default repositories. I haven't given a proper chance to rpm-based distributions in years, so I wouldn't know if their usability is worse these days.

That would be ideal, but we are not living in the Ideal World. For the sake of research I tried to download LibreOffice from its official site [External Link] which is notorious for distributing the suite in dozens of small packages (41 in the base bundle, to be precise) and unpacked it in Ubuntu 16.10 (that's what I currently have in my VM, or, to be particular, it is regular Ubuntu but with Unity removed and XFCE installed, so more akin to Xubuntu).

• The first question is "And which of these packages shall I doubleckick?".


• OK, I've chosen "libobasis6.0-base_6.0.5.2_amd64.deb" (it sounds as good as any).


• Fine, some window appeared and after a minute of waiting warned me it is a 3rd party software and can contain non-free components (yeah, sure, this knowledge will come in handy :D ) and a button labeled "Install" (not really, it is localized).


• I clicked the button and… nothing! Not even an "ERROR!" message or something telling me what's gone wrong.


• At this point any regular user just reinstalls Windows, but I'm a nerd and know "magic" command sudo dpkg -i *.deb and use it in the directory with all the packages.


• It installs, proving that without "command line" nothing can be installed.

Please note, the VM does not have Internet connection, so everything needed was in that directory but GUI application failed to notice it. So, alas, the "*.deb" distribution method is just total BS without repositories.

Quoting: tuubiSure, a user can mess up their system if they install third-party packages, but if you're an admin to a bunch of users you can't trust, just don't let them install software.

Just what type of person are you? A tyrant??? :woot: No, no, no! Users should be able to install needed software (not just games, it could be engineering software like Blender, OpenFOAM or FreeCAD) locally (i.e. to their own home directory without any explicit permissions). Besides, a good app must not demand to be "installed", instead it should be usable from any directory (unpacked, of course) and contain every library it needs bundled with it (or use only common libs).

Quoting: tuubiGiving up and making people manage their own software does not solve anything.

As I said, a user should not "manage" anything. Only 3 simple steps: 1) download; 2) doublelick, Next, Next, Next, OK (fewer "Next" steps => better); 3) Play. That's all. If a developer truly wants to be sure the game is up to date, it must build-in the update function in the game.

Yes, it is a Windows-like approach, but it works and it is well known to all ex-Windows users. No matter how repository approach can be "ideologically and conceptually superior", this must not stand in the way of ease of use.

Quoting: tuubiGames are a special case of software, but this is why we have frontends like the itch.io app and Steam.

And, judging by the Windows™ practice, soon we will have frontends managing frontends (with all those 15 or so different "clients", like "Battle.net", "Origin", "Uplay", "Paradox Launcher" etc. trying to update everything what was and was not asked for and constantly hogging RAM). :whistle:

Quoting: tuubiBoth basically only install a bare-bones setup system-wide and most of the actual client and all the games are installed in user directories.

Yeah, we all know about fabulous "Steam Runtime" dedicated to free us from "DLL-Hell"… eew… "Dependency Nightmare" while have not been updated since 2013.

But whether to use clients or not is entirely different topic.

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Quoting: ProfessorKaos64...wut. well if you don't want actual packages that integrate with your system libraries, you could always try those fancy snaps or flatpaks. Many package managers allow non root installs or "user" mode installs. Packages exist as they are the most logical approach for users of a distribution. Why package all the libraries for each when you can share them. It may be ages until there is a clear "winner" for a univeral(sic) approch(sic). I actually loathe firing up other package managers instead of using apt/yum/pacman. Using manual installers / shell scripts gets oflur(sic) of hand when the number of items increases.

Wut?! I seriously begin to think that there is a "Package Approach" sect.

We do not need any "winner" in the "DEB/RPM/WHATEVER wars". Ordinary user should not even know about this.

From a user's viewpoint it is completely irrelevant what package system his/her distro is using. The user in question must see "xxx updates available. Update the system?" and click "Yea, sure!" That's all! Have you ever tried to install *.deb or *.rpm package manually? I have. It does not work! I mean, doudleclicking on it does not work. Best case, some dialogue window appears and asks permission to install, but if the package in question has dependencies then -- BAM -- the process fails. Because there are no mechanisms for dependency solving without repositories. "Command line" (terminal emulator) and manual downloading of required packages from some site like this [External Link] are in order. This is BS.

From an administrator's viewpoint it is serious security breach to install some unsigned (or self-signed with shady keys) software in system-critical portions of the filesystem ("/usr/bin", "/usr/lib64" etc.) probably adding third-party open keys as trusted in the process. This is total BS!

User oriented entertainment software should not be installed system-wide!

And in case someone wondered, even user-level installed software can be added to auto-loading during startup and applications menu (AKA "Start Button"), see XDG specification.

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Quoting: ErzfeindThe stable release has RPMs and even a repo. Don't know why that's not the case for the beta.

Hmm, maybe so, maybe… When I tried to download the "stable" version I was prompted to "itch-23.6.3-amd64.tar.xz" tarball.

On the second thought, this all "DEB/RPM" thing is totally wrong. In general a PC can have multiple users (e. g. "family PC" ) and while some of them might use itch.io, others do not so this client should be installed per-user, not system-wide (needless to say a user might not be local admin).

Tarballs are all around better (or "*.sh" scripts if one prefers automatization).

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Only the DEB packages. Can't install, so… Thanks, but no thanks!

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Quoting: liamdaweYou can't get better than that!

Steam-exclusive? I'll pass. :(

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WOW! Liam being so acrimonious is a rare sight!
The developers had to p*ss him off royally.

Sadly, Kickstarter scams are commonplace nowadays; but what is more infuriating for me is that developers are not so eager to offend Mac users despite their relatively small market share (and overall weak hardware).

Quoting: SeegrasThere's a rule regarding software projects: First show me the code.

Alas, this also does not guarantee a success.

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However if you can only play the game on Mac / Linux then it's probably best to hold off backing the project until we're able to tell you that for certain!

I think we should do just that.

Quoting: TheRiddickNot like ultra high framerate will be needed for a TBS, if its above 60fps then it should be fine.

Some 10~20 FPS loss can be minor for those blessed with "GTX 1080 Ti" but can make a game unplayable for people with "GTX 650", for example. Furthermore, a poor port will generate several unfavorable benchmarks on YouTube cementing the views about Linux as inferior third-tier technology.

No, we need superior versions no matter what!

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Quoting: TheSHEEEPI really don't get this.

Why would you replay a game that doesn't even offer replayability?

And how about "Why would you reread a book that doesn't even offer rereadability?" :P
Different people have different tastes. You do not need to "get" their reasoning on this, just take for granted some actually enjoy replay the games of youth (like I, for example, sometimes replay "Fallout 2" despite beating it several times 10 years ago).

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Quoting: tonRSame story as me in Malaysia. For example, 'The Signal from Tölva' regular price here is RM 38.00 or USD 9.49 or R$ 35.57. GoL readers from developing countries had no choices other than buying cheap that comes with DRM.

But, I'm buying on itch.io if the games really interesting to me such as Slipstream, Tacoma etc., at full price!

Have you looked at GOG? It also has the games you mentioned, like The Signal From Tölva [External Link], Tacoma [External Link], Slipstream 5000 [External Link] and others, all DRM-free and with regional pricing (at least in my country).

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