Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaineBut what rankles the most is that you're not listening. I've told you why eON is irrelevant and you just don't care.

I'm curious, do you know of any other game ported to Linux with eON? Or is it the first one? From what I understand there might have been a few games released for Mac using it, right?

No, I don't know. Because I don't care. The result is what matters. Does it work well? Great. Don't care how it was done.

To be clear, I'm talking about ports of older games. I'd prefer future games to be made "properly", but you have to be realistic about this.

Well, I agree it does not matter provided it works well. That's not exactly the case in this instance. What if eON is the issue? Then it matters.

Well, this is digressing into the first argument all over again and I don't feel like talking about pizzas, geeks and the fashion industry all over again. I've stated my case. eON is irrelevant. The game "The Witcher 2" is what we should be talking about.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaineBut what rankles the most is that you're not listening. I've told you why eON is irrelevant and you just don't care.

I'm curious, do you know of any other game ported to Linux with eON? Or is it the first one? From what I understand there might have been a few games released for Mac using it, right?

No, I don't know. Because I don't care. The result is what matters. Does it work well? Great. Don't care how it was done.

To be clear, I'm talking about ports of older games. I'd prefer future games to be made "properly", but you have to be realistic about this.

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And one more thing - this editorial is based on us "accepting" the port. When did we do that? I had this game in my library from some bundle I bought years ago - and I suspect most did too.

What constitutes our "acceptance". Buying the game? Too late. Playing it? Well, it's working great on my system. Are you suggesting I don't play it because a minority are having problems?

And is it a minority? How many people are actually affected by this terrible port that works really well for me?

I get it. You're angry because it doesn't work for you. Doubly so, if you bought the game. But using your editorial power to trash a company's efforts to enter the Linux market? Based on supposition?

No. I'm not supporting that.

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Quoting: ImantsI don't think we can ask developers to make quality ports to such a old games, but I agree that all new games should be made with Linux (at least all those which want to target Steam OS) in mind so that developers should not use such a shady ways to port games.

Yeah, this is pretty much it in a nutshell.

And a wee note to Liam directly. I support this site. Both with money and you'll also remember that despite that support, I also asked you NOT to remove your ads. I also contribute to the Funding Crowd article with Speedster and Munts - they're usually good for about 1000 page views each and we spend hours putting them together.

So to hear you still banging on about eON like it's actually relevant and quoting me in an editorial to yet again dismiss my arguments... well, what can I think? You certainly have no respect for my opinion - you've made that clear here. But I'm a big boy - call me naive in your editorial then, life will go on, the world will keep spinning.

But what rankles the most is that you're not listening. I've told you why eON is irrelevant and you just don't care.

Disappointing.

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Nice! Looks like Pulsar:Lost Colony has some competition on their hands!

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Quoting: GuestSo yes, the blame for the technical issues is from the wrapper, in my opinion.

And again with the wrapper! Are you in cahoots with Liam? :)

Standards are being applied to this that no other industry has to deal with. In my pizza example, you'd demand to know HOW the pizza was made. In the car industry, you'd ask the salesman how the welds were joined. In the fashion industry, you'd demand to know the stitching method.

It's not the HOW that is important. It's the end result. There are exceptions to this, such as DRM, of course. But using eON is not an example of this.

Good points about my faulty extrapolation on Steam sales though. There will be many Windows users buying this of course. I hadn't taken into account the fact that they'd put it on Sale at the same time as the Linux launch. And true, not everyone will complain but the countpoint was that almost no-one will champion it.

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Quoting: liamdaweIt matters to me, that's my point. We all have our opinions and you clearly don't mind where as I do.

Will have to agree to disagree on this as the toolkit IS the source of my and others issues.

I'm just trying to understand why you care. The result is what matters. I saw the same outrage with Limbo, but for me - it worked perfectly and we wouldn't have that game otherwise so...

But sure. Let's drop it.

Quoting: GuestActually at first there were very many positive comments.

Then people finished downloading the game.

Then came the outrage.

But from how many? Of tens of thousands (guessing) downloads, we have a few hundred posts on here, from maybe twenty or so folk who have problems. Same on Steam, slightly bigger scale there (about 700 messages so far over two threads), but we're talking hundreds of disgruntled buyers, a tiny percentage of the overall target.

So is this wrapper really the root of evil? There must surely be thousands and thousands of configurations running out there near-flawlessly. Not as good as Windows performance, sure, but good enough to play the game, like my own experience. And going back to my Limbo point above - let's be clear here. If they didn't use eON, we wouldn't have this game, simple as that.

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Quoting: liamdawe@scaine, Again i disagree, people can compare apples to oranges all they like, but in the end my views still stand.

This is more like cooking a pizza with a lightbulb, the tools ALWAYS matter when the tool isn't up for the job. The point is a lightbulb isn't meant to cook a pizza. In the same way that a Windows game isn't meant to be run on Linux, it's meant to be ported in-code.

All metaphors will fail in the end, Liam, but honestly, a lightbulb didn't cook my Witcher 2 experience. eON clearly works really, really well in certain configurations and the fact is, I got that great experience.

So my point stands. Stop focussing on WHY things are bad. You shouldn't care about the why. And if you were a bit less geeky (like myself) you wouldn't care. All you'd focus on is that you had a bad experience while many others are having a great experience.

Let me put it another way. The Witcher 2 shot into the top sellers on Steam. Probably tens of thousands of sales. Do you think there's a thread out there with hundreds of comments of "OMG, this is awesome on my PC!"? Nah, those guys are busy playing the damn game. We're only hearing the negative here.

So there's a really good chance that we're only hearing about a tiny percentage of disgruntled folk here. CD Projekt RED have support a platform that they've generally had very big reservations about and no, they didn't test properly. But we're only one day after general release and I think improvements will come.

They should be applauded for taking a risk. Not shot down for some obscure technical detail regarding the way they provided support.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: wleoncio

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: scaineFolk need to stop going on about the wrapper too. It's utterly irrelevant. What's relevant is the quality of the final product and in this case, for a lot of people, that's what's been lacking.

I have to disagree, the tools used are exactly what causes the issues so it is entirely relevant.

Any chance they replace the eON version with a 100% native one down the line?

Pretty much no. I could give reasons...but no, that won't happen (I mean 100% native won't happen, not about me giving reasons).

But maybe this paves the way for a better "The Witcher 3". Probably too soon to impact that project, but you never know. Maybe The Witcher 3 will be delayed a little because they replace badly compatible middleware for a more generic, cross platform alternative, requiring less impact from eON? We can certainly hope so.

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: scaineFolk need to stop going on about the wrapper too. It's utterly irrelevant. What's relevant is the quality of the final product and in this case, for a lot of people, that's what's been lacking.

I have to disagree, the tools used are exactly what causes the issues so it is entirely relevant.

Nah, mate. If you buy a pizza and it tastes absolutely delicious, do you care that it wasn't actually made in a stone oven? Of course not. You have a delicious pizza and that's what counts. Job done.

The only reason you care about how THIS pizza was made is that you got a bad one. You're focussing, unnecessarily, on an unimportant detail. Focus on the result.

And don't put up with shoddy pizza. We're agreed on that. CD Projekt RED didn't test properly, but we need to stop getting bogged down in details like eON vs VOGL vs native. No one who isn't a geek cares about that stuff. All they care about is the experience.

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