Quoting: GuestSometimes it makes sense if people tried to make sense.

AMD _do_ employ people to fix Mesa.
Valve do as well.

That's not the point. Of course those devs fix bugs from time to time.
But they usually add missing features to Mesa. Their main task is not to ensure product quality.
This is a job someone else has to do but currently there is no one in AMDs team.
Intel team has someone like that,I really don't understand why it is so hard to believe AMD needs someone too.

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Quoting: GuestSo...the only list I can find that you might be referring to is community run on GOL. The hopes are that it will help people know about games with problems and possible solutions, not to act as a bug report section for Valve.
Also, Valve are not responsible for fixing an X3 issue. Which you haven't linked to, so I'm assuming my google-fu is pointing to the right place.

So I'm not sure what your problem actually is here.

It sometimes makes sense to read some more posts in a thread....

Anyway the list we talk about is this one:
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/wiki/Games_broken_on_Mesa

A valve employee twittered it would be nice to have one.
https://www.gamingonlinux.com/articles/valve-are-looking-to-gather-a-list-of-games-that-dont-work-with-radeonsi.8874

Unfortunately that was the last time someone from valve was talking about that list.

Again some posts earlier I mentioned that Mesa has way more bugs than the list contains. After that I was quoted by Shmerl to add missing problematic games. Later he said, I should not complain if I don't want to add new entries.
But thing is that those bugs still exist having them added to the list or not.
Also I claim that the list is obsolete. As neither valve nor Mesa devs gave ever any feedback. If they were serious on this, I would expect they go through the issues one by one. But instead, nothing has happened.
Back to my initial statement, as I have the feeling my message got somehow lost:
Mesa's AMD team desperately needs an extra dev solely caring for bug handling, stable release managing and get in touch with game developers and porting companies.
This is a full time job and needs profound knowledge. This can't be done by volunteers.
This doesn't mean that we shouldn't report bugs anymore. But it is unacceptable if bugs stay open for years and stable releases are broken and don't get fixed. AMD and valve are multi billion dollar companies, this isn't a fan project, this is the official amd Linux driver. This is a problem which needs to be solved. But it doesn't look like there is a solution in sight. So the community needs to rise awareness. And it doesn't get better if we doing like there are no problems.

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Marek did respond to the bug report. So you probably should continue the conversation there.

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No it doesn't help. But it also doesn't help to waste effort and energy to a list which neither valve nor any Mesa dev cares for.
How long is that X3 issue known? One year? Two years?
It should be obvious that the original reporter won't fill a bug report. Still, did valve anything to resolve this problem? No? I think there is no better proof than that, that this list is dead.

Claiming there aren't more bugs because they aren't on that list is just not true.
I can only add bugs which I encounter myself. But there are many more games and configurations out there. What's with them?

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Quoting: JahimselfMicrosoft must be like WTF!! They have million dollars (if not billion) of ressource to make a game mode that is slower than normal mode, and a small but well trained team of porter release an open source that actually works as intended!

That's not correct. Feral themselves claimed that Windows thread scheduler is way smarter when it comes to games.
Meant: What feral is doing with their tool does windows out of the box and that for years not just recently with the game mode.
Windows game mode just helps on bloated machines. But it doesn't give a benefit to high end desktops.

That this tool is achieving such big differences in performance is actually just showing how bad the Linux kernel is optimized for games.

I guess feral will show us the first game with superior performance on Linux vs. Windows. Im really excited.

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I'm running Mesa git / LLVM svn / amd-staging drm-next git on a SI card (Radeon HD 7970).
The support for newer GCN generations might be better but I experience micro stuttering and heavy frame drops in a numerous games. This is either related to a bug in the support for the SI architecture or a general problem with the shader compiler.

In general I wouldn't recommend to get a new AMD product to early. Except you want to ride a staging kernel. Because it usually takes months till support appear in a stable release. See that raven ridge disaster. I'm actually not sure those are in an working state today.

If you want to to see a list of current problems:
https://bugs.freedesktop.org/buglist.cgi?bug_status=__open__&component=Drivers%2FGallium%2Fradeonsi&order=changeddate%20DESC%2Cbug_status%2Cpriority%2Cassigned_to%2Cbug_id&product=Mesa&query_format=advanced [External Link]

I'm very sure even valve should be able to read this. Sadly this doesn't even include general Mesa bugs.

One more thing to mention is that Mesa has problems with games needing compat profiles. Also there are problems with VP ports, just see that Arma 3 bug.
Oh and lastly I recommend to use Mesa git and LLVM svn. Because everytime you create a bug usually the first reaction is to test again with current git. Basically meaning that there is no support for stable releases. I just remember the bug in LLVM 5 which affects multiple games and never got fixed, and won't be fixed as they don't make a new release of LLVM 5 and suggest to use LLVM 6. Of course your distro don't have LLVM 6 available, so you are better of managing software yourself.

@Shmerl
I'm sorry but I do complain for good reason. Basically valve called for a list but unfortunately never gave feedback.
It's like I said with the X3 bug. If valve would really care they reproduced the issue and opened a bug on the freedesktop bug tracker. But that didn't happen.
People are frustrated because they thought their problems get solved but they didn't receive any feedback at all. As a result, the list is now out of date because users don't see its worth maintaining it.
I appreciate your work here though. I just keep working with the freedesktop bug tracker.

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Well the problematic part is that the regular user don't know who's right and who's wrong. Judging from the statement Marek was giving in his patch, VP is violating the spec and nvidia just allows it.
Of course Mesa won't allow out of the spec behavior. It doesn't matter if there is more work needed to implement a feature xy. Only a spec change could probably help here then.
If Marek is wrong then someone need to explain him why.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: strunkenboldI fear that list of bugged Mesa games is not even 50% complete.

The list is populated by volunteers specifically for the purpose of bringing more attention to these bugs. Feel free to add what's missing if you know of any games like that.

Sorry but the list is outdated and lists mainly game bugs. Also I didn't saw any dev ever reacting to that list.
Like the X3 bug, that one got even bisected, anything happend until now?
What's up with those many game related bugs? Is valve doing any work on them? Have they actually ever respond after they said "let's create a list"?
I think I'm not the only one who got the feeling that nothing happens here anymore.

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Well the bad thing for us gamers is that we won't see the bug fixed then.
Mesa follows the OpenGL spec and VP will likely not give up its dx behavior.
I would suggest to cc Marek to the bug report and elaborate why Mesa has to change. We'll see if there will be consent.

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I fear that list of bugged Mesa games is not even 50% complete. It's really unfortunate that many bug reports stay open for months or even years. AMD Mesa team desperately needs a dev solely caring for fixing bug reports, writing piglits and do intense testing of stable releases.
IMO the problem is that Mesa is too slow picking up features. All devs focus on catching up what nvidia binary driver offers for months or years. Just look how long it already takes to offering OpenGL 4.6. RadeonSI needs to switch to NIR because of that and once this gets enabled by default you can be sure to see another bunch of regressions.
Unfortunately again, because of the current way bugs get fixed is following a completely random pattern, you can be either lucky or not.
In the end I wouldn't recommend Mesa to anyone. Except you have fun running current git Mesa / LLVM / AMD staging kernel. It is definitely fun to see the improvements Mesa made in the last years. I basically saw performance improvements of over 50% in some games but encountering bugs which no one is willing to fix for years sadly just spoils the fun.
Anyway I'm happy to see people reporting bugs but I don't think that this will be enough. In the end AMD will need someone taking care...

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