Quoting: LeopardGuys , i think i couldn't express myself enough.

Sure , we can say screw FM , it is the same game every year anyway. And i agree as a FM owner who last bought FM 2016 then said screw it.

But one least game means maybe one less newcomer. When people are hoping on Linux , normally they look at the native games available first.

Yes , i'm also started to spend much much more when i started using full time Linux. But appearently that is not enough despite our efforts.

Things is , we need another push in some way. Otherwise i'm afraid we will see many more series like that fading away. According to last response of Paradox ( covered here as an article ) they're the possible next publisher can do that.

I don't know also why you are so optimistic. We surely know , at a first glance maybe everyone can say " At least we're getting indies no matter what " but even situation on there is not bright. Because indie games we get are mostly from new people with their first game ever , thanks to Unity and Unreal's Linux support they also give us Linux builds. But most of them don't plan Linux for their next title. ( According to back2gaming interview )

In AAA terms , Feral is the last stronghold. And we're also not getting all games of theirs. Some of them are Mac only.

To sum it up ; until a new push about Linux gaming, that trend seems to be continued.

Sorry, you came here saying "People on Linux don't buy games", we prove you're wrong and now you come with this.

If you're afraid that we're losing momentum, I can tell you that I don't see such thing as I don't see that we're getting less games than previous years. In fact, the good news is that many games have improve a lot their Linux support (at least as a Mesa user I can say that). And no, don't think that the games we get are mostly made by amateurs. So, I would like that you explain me how this isolated cases affects Linux or, way more better, show me that the Linux gaming release trend for this year is lower than previous year.

The only thing we can, and should, be doing is to keep buying as much games we can and give the support and help to any new/old user that gets to our platform. Also, if your points is that we should improve the momentum of Linux desktop adoption (it is not all about games sometimes), then maybe there would be better that you take part on some political movement in your country in order to create antitrust laws that benefit Linux adoption (for instance, make mandatory selling PC/Notebooks without an OS installed and specifying how much the user pays for his Windows OEM license when buying one).

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Quoting: F.UltraAccording to https://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2017-June/160362.html [External Link] the GLSL specs (where this is happening) says that "derivatives are undefined after non-uniform discard" so you could argue that this use is forbidden (if you act like a GCC developer) or that it's a grey area.

I'm a complete ignorant about OpenGL nor graphics APIs, but how hard would be to specify an OGL extension to address this issue? Is Khronos group a problem to create such extension?

From my point of view, Mesa will not accept to change anything if they don't get some clarification from the standard and I remember that Malek mention this as a possible solution (if I didn't get him wrong).

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Quoting: LeopardPeople on Linux don't buy games

Well, my last credit card bill can prove you're wrong

Edit: I feel a lot of negative mood today..

Quoting: MVinhasI bought a Windows Phone smartphone back in 2015. I really liked that OS and didn't care about being developed by Microsoft. Windows Phone was at his peak, with a good set of apps (nothing like Android or iOS, but still) and a decent performance. Then, the company A stated that they will not release the next version of their app on WP. Ok. Some weeks later, Company B anounced the same. And the downfall of WP started, IIRC on late 2015.

I hope this isn't happening on Linux Gaming world, Rust abandoning Linux was a huge letdown, now Football Manager...two AAA games and I really like both. Thing is, since 2012 until this date we didn't had news like this, the number of AAA games was always increasing. I'm kinda worried because I've seen this before.

Lets get some perspective: We "lost" two AAA that didn't get a lot of audience in our platform and one of them was a complete disaster at QA (if we can say there was such thing on that project).

But this year we got Tomb Raider and before the end of the year we will get Life Is Strange 2 and Warhammer 2. Not to mention that we are getting the first Battle Royale like game for Linux in the upcoming weeks. Sometime it's all related on how you want to see things, so if you have a bad mood due that you were big fans of Rust & FM, you only have to feel bad for the latter, as the former will still get the Linux version (with null support as always).

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Well, I like historic events in games and certainly this is that part of the history you never learn in western schools (you know, we focus a lot in catholic branch events), so it's a plus.

Anyway, I don't very confident with investing in kickstarters that promise "Linux" version, as we all know if the publisher doesn't get the enough money they have to start to cutting on features, and normally Linux support is in top of the stack. I don't know... have to think about this.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: F.UltraSo Mesa should just focus on being bug for bug compatible with nVidia?

You're focusing on bashing Nvidia again. Let me make it clear.

The Nvidia binary driver on Linux has this behavior
AMD's Catalyst driver on Linux has this behavior
All of the OS X OpenGL drivers - for AMD, Nvidia and Intel have this behavior.
Metal on OS X has this behavior.

MESA is the odd one out.

You can argue semantics all you like, but if the situation was reversed e.g. Nvidia was "following spec" and MESA was "doing the popular thing", you'd be screaming for Nvidia to "fix it".

The question here is: what says OpenGL specs about this behavior? Is Marek wrong with his statement? There is no point to say that others drivers works to a project and devs that are very pedantic with what is stated in papers (you're allowed to quote Torvalds for this behavior :p ).

Is there anyway to optimize the workaround they have in radeonsi? Sounds like that we have a solution but it strongly hits performance.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: strunkenboldVP is violating the spec and nvidia just allows it.

Really ? It just happens to work on OS X's GL drivers too, but it's our bug ? Riiiight....

I told you, those are propietary and they normally don't hesitate to implement specific games workarounds at driver level.

Is this the bug ticket? https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=101739 [External Link]

If so, the answer of Malek points towards what I'm saying. The behavior they ask is not defined in OpenGL specification. Yes, Mesa is kinda pedantic on this issues, but that's the way they work.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: F.UltraThat it works on the nVidia driver is proof of exactly nothing. nVidia is known for adding support for broken behaviour and the problem for Mesa here is if they are to be following the OpenGL specifications or if they are to allow nVidia to dictate the OpenGL specifications.

Unfortunately many game devs use nVidia so they don't know that they are not following the specs since it "just works".

Yawn. You completely missed the part where I said it works on OS X's GL drivers too then. On ALL GPU's there. Also it worked on Catalyst. Nice one in turning it into an opportunity to bash Nvidia though.

Just so you know.. my main Linux box has an AMD card in it.

The same applies. OSX OGL implementation is done by AMD or Nvidia on their propietary drivers. That it works somewhere else is no proof of nothing. Mesa devs try to follow very tightly the OpenGL specs, so it wouldn't surprise me if there is a misunderstanding of the OGL specs from VP devs side.

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Quoting: razing32Phones are not really comparable. You lack the choice and customization you have available on PC.
I get not caring about upgrading and just wanting to play games but on Windows and even Ubuntu it's easy to install steam , download a game and play .
My issue is with the game being locked to a single hardware platform.

I wasn't comparing the PC vs Smartphone, just mentioned it in order to show you how we accept a more limited market sometimes.

And believe me, console gamers don't care about customization (out of changing a background). There is a lot of people that doesn't have any idea of how a PC works so they prefer to go into a black box that guaranties that everything they see in the market will work (I remember one friend mentioning as an advantage that he doesn't have to take care of graphics settings on the console). What we see as easy and simple, could mean a nightmare for others.

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Well I definitely don't have the time for this game, but as I can see there are lots of people on Linux playing/willing to play I'll buy it for the sake of support the community (I may check before if I didn't got over my 'money to spend in games' limit... that's what happens when you live with your girlfriend a starts sharing expenses)

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Quoting: razing32Sorry but i have to disagree.
Are they all the same - Yes.
Does the software make use of all the power - Maybe
Is the hardware comparable ? NO. Not really.
I never meant to excuse poor optimization with "add more hardware" . The point I was trying to make is you CAN upgrade a PC with a newer graphics card rather than build a whole new one. With consoles you can A)Never upgrade B)Not always have backwards compatibility
It does not matter how polished exclusives are. They are by definition an anti-consumer practice. Buy this or you can never play the game you like. The game should be multiplatform and the winner should be whoever delivers the best experience , not who locks the game down.
As for the so called ultra-smooth experiences I could get into the whole FPS thing , but I don't want to seem like a snob so I'll leave it here.

Well, the same applies for smartphone market. The big difference is that you have way more harware there, but you can end up with the same limitations.

From my point of view, is a market for a group of people in this world. I mean, I fell the same as you about their limitations, but I also have many friends that really appreciates this limitations in some way. For instances, they don't care about upgrading (if not once every 5-7 years) or if it runs @144 fps. They just want a piece of hardware that runs the games they like without having to deal with anything out of paying the game, pushing the install button and start playing.

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