Quoting: GuestSome years ago we were just happy when a native AAA title like XCom 2 or Civ V got a native port. Nowadays native ports are out of the question and we are happy if a game *may* run ok in Linux using a compatibility layer

Yes, that is the harsh reality, which I see quite a lot of people have problems to come to terms with. Your point?
To add salt to the wound, if the companies behind those games did not think SteamOS is gonna be a big thing, we would have never gotten those ports, no matter how many of us would throw a tantrum.

On more positive side, said compatibility layer has come a long way and nowadays, it is usually question of when a game will run ok, instead of if.

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Quoting: BasianiWorMzy

However, by buying a game that doesn't support Linux, you are sending the message to the dev that they don't need to support Linux to get your money. Why should that dev support Linux if you're going to give them money either way?

Thanks. You said what I wanted to say.
Looks like game developers are thinking "Why we support Linux, when Linux users have WINE/PROTON and they already are buying games from us. Yes, they have some pains to play our games but they don't care it so why we care them, why we support them?!"
Buying unsupported game sends game developers signal that you anyway paying of them. So they don't have reason to support Linux. No one makes games for supporting gamers, it's business.

You are right, but there is more to consider. Namely, if you want more people to adapt Linux as a Linux platform. If not, buying only native games is the right approach. Otherwise, I would say buying AAA games that don't have a native version but work in Proton is also good for Linux gaming. Why?

Look at the past. We already had an era when Steam was all in on Linux with Steam OS and many AAA developers responded by porting their game to Linux. Didn't work. Sure, Linux adoption grew, but not enough. Now developers know that Steam OS isn't such a boom as was expected, so the big business oriented AAA games developers don't see any business valid reason of why to port to Linux anymore. Despite that, many AAA games work on Linux thanks to Proton.

Why do I make the distinction between AAA games and indie games here? When it comes to Linux adoption and people talking about why when it comes to gaming Linux isn't there yet (which I disagree with btw), it was always in reference to some AAA game that does not work. But as time goes on, more and more AAA games which didn't work before work now using Proton. If people stop using Proton altogether in favor of buying only native indie games, Proton will get less development and this trend will start going down instead of up, meaning less and less new AAA games will work in Proton, meaning less and less people will see Linux as a valid gaming platform.

Last, but certainly not least, the absolute best way to support native Linux gaming is to support the Godot engine. Buying any native game (expect those developed in Godot or other open source engines) fades in comparison to that.

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It really sucks that Steam doesn't do affiliate links, as I literally bought it now thanks to this article (forgot the game existed). Too bad Humble didn't have the discount, otherwise I would have bought it there.

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You put "No combat" in your game, you have my attention. At the very least, it suggests that the game is trying to do something different.

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I would like to add Mount and Blade: Warband to this list. It's 75% off and it's an awesome game. Plus, every sale of Warband increases the likelyhood of Bannerlord being ported to Linux.

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Quoting: scaineIs that contentious though?? :happy:

I support Godot, Wine AND a tiny handful of indie developers for that very reason! I also support Icculus and it annoys me no end that Ethan Lee only allows GitHub payments, or I'd be throwing him $5 a month too. My Patreon bill is nearly as high as my TV bill these days!! :grin:

You would be surprised how many people don't support any of what you mentioned, but buy ton of native Linux games, which they almost never play, but do so to "support Linux gaming". I was one of those people. Now instead of buying games I touch for total of 10 minutes, I only buy games I know for sure I want to play (I still take if game is native or not into consideration, but not so much as before) and spend the rest of the money on supporting open source projects like Godot.

Why do you still have TV man? Isn't it all about that Netflix life now?

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Quoting: scaineI should have known better to raise the emulator thing on GOL... :grin:

So, just so we're clear:

• Spectrum was better than C64


• Atari ST was better than Amiga


• Sega Megadrive was better than the Nintendo SNES


• GIMP is a stupid name that detracts from its professional image


• Ubuntu Unity was among the best DE's in existence


• Window buttons should be on the right side of the window decoration


• vi is cursed - just use nano


• AMD is superior to Nvidia (on Linux)


• PC does not mean Windows


• Wine is an emulator for the vast, vast majority of people

Glad I got all that off my chest. And it's Friday! Roll on the weekend. Have a good one, everyone!

Heh. You think that's bad? Watch this:

Just so we're clear:

• Buying games that work in Proton while also financially supporting Godot is waaay better for Linux gaming than buying only native games.

Have a great weekend, everyone :grin:

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Quoting: ShmerlYeah. Whether emulator decreases performance or not is inconsequential. May be your method of emulation is so efficient, that it makes it even faster than the original. Emulation itself doesn't imply any performance specifics. It just refers to the copying of behavior.

Problem is, for most people the word emulator invokes performance decrease. That's why the meaning of what Wine stands for was changed from Windows Emulator to Wine Is Not an Emulator and nowadays, terms like compatibility layer or wrapper are used instead. Unfortunatelly, it's another case of peoples incorect understanding of certain term causing the neccesity to create new terms, but well.. what can you do.

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Quoting: ShmerlSure. I'd call it emulation. Synonym - copy, imitate, mimic, behave like.

Wine tries to behave like Windows (copies Windows behavior for the program). It does that translating the calls sure, but it still copies Windows behavior = emulates Windows.

Okay, I think I'm starting to understand you now.

But then using your understanding of an emulator, what I wrote before:

Emulator - always a significant performance decrease when compared to the real thing
Wine - Usually the performance decrease when compared to the real thing is insignificant, sometimes even non-existent.

Becomes this:

Emulator - performance decrease (or possibly even increase) depends on the implementation
Wine - Usually the performance decrease when compared to the real thing is insignificant, sometimes even non-existent.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: RoosterIt doesn't emulate Windows. It translates Windows system calls into POSIX-compliant system calls.

Which I have no problem calling emulating Windows API.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/emulation [External Link]
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/emulation [External Link]
https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/emulation [External Link]

Your expectation that the word emulation has a narrow meaning of hardware emulation is unfounded.

https://www.tutorialspoint.com/what-are-system-calls-in-operating-system [External Link]

Look at the table on this website. That's Wine in its simplest, very simplified form. All you need to do is slap one function which calls the Linux equivalent whenever there is a Windows system call in the code. Would you call that an emulation?

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