Quoting: mao_dze_dunThere are tons of Steam only games. Why is all of a sudden Epic evil for having 3rd party esxclusives?

-Steam exclusives are neither Steam exclusive nor platform exclusive by any kind of force. Any developer may decide to publish his game elsewhere.
-Epic exclusives seem to be shop exclusive (until Epic decides otherwise), but not platform exclusive (as far as platforms are availlable on the Epic shop).
-MS Store are platform- and shop exclusive (Windows and XBox until MS decides otherwise).
Decay of openness from top to bottom..

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Quoting: mylka

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: mylka

Quoting: GuestThat explains the recent Valve royalty cut...

Valve is very greedy and lazy. And sadly they don't show signs of improving. They will only really try to change their ways when it is too late, as is always the case...

you say that after all they did for linux (client, steamOS, wine/proton, dxvk, mesa) for free

Well, they're doing it because it benefits them. Yes, it's of benefit to the general GNU/Linux community too, but I wouldn't quite say "free" (Valve would expect something to come of it, or they wouldn't invest). Subtle difference, but important: and no flame wars, this is a good showcase of how a company can invest in open source software for their own benefit, without trampling on user rights.

Anyway, Valve have done plenty of shady things as well. Let's not forget the paid mod fiasco. They've steadily reduced their own effort in managing their own marketplace (trying to make it community run basically means they don't have to do anything except gather the cash). That point is going to stir a few emotions I'm sure, but it's good business sense really: get others to do the work for you. I wouldn't put it quite to the extreme of greedy and lazy, but neither are Valve going to put in more effort than they have to.

Oh, and Valve do try improve because they know that if they don't, the success with Steam that they've had won't last. They've been working to give themselves a direction, a way out of stagnation. I think there's even a video of Newell saying that somewhere.

Please please please people don't read this as attacking (quite often people do). I'm not. Valve aren't golden heroes, but neither are they murky villains. They're just doing good business, and obviously GNU/Linux is, or Valve believes has the potential for, good (desktop) business.

i dont think they make the big bucks with linux
of course they wont lose money with their linux support, but if linux would be so profitable, than gog, ea, uplay, and epic already had linux support for their clients and/or their top sellers like witcher 3, battlefield, call of duty, assassins creed, fortnite, etc

so dont underestimate the effort, because the other big players just dont care about linux

Valve needs Linux, because it's bound to be open. No one can own Linux and shut it down like Windows walled gardens. So Valve invested in openness! Maybe Epic sees that now too...

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: ixnariOh good, ANOTHER digital distribution platform. Just what I wanted for xmas.

Speculation and wishful thinking is what all of this boils down to. "Other open platforms" is too vague. Until Epic mentions Linux specifically, this is a non-story.

A non-story? Sure, if you live in a tiny bubble. Even without Linux support right now, it's major industry news. One that may have a big effect on the company we rely on quite heavily as a gaming platform.

So many completely different kinds of reactions...
For me it's a big wow! The company of Mr. Sweeney, the one very prominent voice warning about Microsofts plans to close up its walled garden opens up its own store. It is positioned as a competitor of Steam, which is truely a big step, one that probably has mainly become possible by the success of Fortnite...
What's really important to see here in my opinion is: Epic, like Valve emphasized denonstratively openness. It will be open to open platforms, open to competitive engines, and that's great and healthy. If Epic one day will support Linux, their shop will be supportable by my standards!
One thing I have to say though. I for my part will be ever thankful for what Valve did for Linux gaming. Their dedication to open platforms stands out! They were and are the prime mover of Linux gaming.

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Quoting: YoRHa-2B

Quoting: ShmerlI'm surprised they didn't mention Linux explicitly. With Tim Sweeney constantly complaining about MS lock-in, you would have expected him to put Linux front and center in the store announcement.

Except there's this tweet [External Link] which is basically a big fat "Nope".

Not exactly. A few days later...
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/968284883935166466 [External Link]

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Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: Termy

Quoting: MayeulCWhat would be interesting for them is to take a (slightly) lesser cut if the game is cross-platform. Everyone would be happy about this, I think, especially bean counters :)

now that is one of the best ideas i've heard in a while to boost Linux-acceptance among the devs...too bad valve is not looking into this comments xD

I know for a fact a few people at Valve do read stuff here now and then :)

If they did not think about it themselves, they should know the idea for some time, at least if they read their own Steam forum.. ;-)

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: NeverthelessProton helps us in two ways:
First, the often quoted hen/egg question. We get more users with more compatible games. New Linux users won't care if the games they can play with Linux are native or not. I don't care a lot! More users will get us more support in the long run.
Second, with Proton Linux users are normal citizen. Priority 1b instead of 2 or 3.

First argument is arguable. Remember, Linux is only platform where emulation (I'll use this word for simplicity and generalization, I know that Wine is not an emulator) became a really big thing due to its history. On every other platform customers are used to being served first-class, with full official support and other benefits. Majority of them won't accept the fact that now they have to run games through some weird translation layer and just hope for the best or apply hacky workarounds just to play the game that they were playing before with ease.
You are relying on Wine because you're used to emulating games and thus rejecting support, because for a long time it was the only way to play most games on Linux, but most of the gamers on other platforms won't do it. Without support from gamedevs Linux as a gaming platform won't attract them.

And second argument is completely wrong. Actually, Proton users are not on any priority list, since for most games Proton is unsupported. If something in Proton breaks and game stops working, the parties involved will reply to you with something like this:
1) Valve: "We didn't support this game"
2) Original dev: "I don't know what Proton is"
3) Wine devs: "We don't hold any responsibility for Proton"
So, in case of breaking you're not entitled to expect some help or compensation, you're entitled only to quietly cry in the corner. I fail to see how it is a "Priority 1".

I was speaking of the whitelisted games there, which will be supported by Valve, and which are promised to become more to a point to "almost all" Steam games. Perhaps my later reference to a not (yet) whitelisted game (DOS2) made that unclear.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: nitroflow

Quoting: KimyrielleThis game is one of my bigger disappointments. I backed their Kickstarter, which was advertising a Linux version. Now, I know, I know! A lot of developers say "We will support Linux!!!" and mean "Eh, we might do it a few years after the Windows release, but only if we're not working on another Windows game then." but HBS is a studio with a proven Linux track record and Paradox is probably THE most Linux friendly publisher there is. I really thought this to be a fairly safe bet.

They sent me the game key sure...it's collecting the digital equivalent of dust in my GOG library for how long now? A year?

I guess this just proves you can trust absolutely no one.

That's being a bit dramatic IMO, the game released in April and the beta has been out for two months already and I haven't noticed any problems apart from slow performance and the LC-ALL=C(as in many other unity games under linux) but I've been told that's on par with Windows performance.

Dramatic perhaps, but we shouldn't forget just how low priority GNU/Linux has been. It was supposed to be in an alpha to backers, but never appeared. It was supposed to be simultaneous release (if I recall rightly, so do tell me if I'm wrong there), but that never happened. It's been stalled more than once for dubious reasons (there's their first expansion out before a proper, official, release on GNU/Linux). And it was all well funded, promises made, from their original kickstarter campaign. They shouldn't be getting freebies just because it's _finally_ out.

One reason I really do like Proton is beeing just a bit more of an ordinary citizen..
I sometimes really don't enjoy beeing seen as part of an overly demanding minority.

Sorry if you don't mean it that way, but it "sounds" like that you think I'm being overly demanding. Like somehow my money is worth less because I use GNU/Linux. Which is really the core of the matter: Battletech was already funded and promised for everything I wrote, yet it's completely ok to ignore that because....GNU/Linux?

So I guess if I'm part of a demanding minority because I expect a company to do what they've been more than fully paid to do....uh....thanks, I guess.

Oh, and "Proton" doesn't help you here. Other than it's playing a Windows game, and seeing as you mentioned it other than wine, it's also a Windows game on Steam (realistically). Which is of no help bringing new games to GNU/Linux because you're then reliant on Windows still, and on top of that it's Valve who control your gaming, not you. Which maybe you're fine with (even I tolerate it), but seeing as this specifically is for a GOG release as well, then it's not for everyone (I buy single player games on GOG where possible simply because I get more control over the game and its updates).

I didn't aim at you specificially. It was more a reaction to something I see very often. I'll explain..
Of course you have a point saying they delayed, and they have been fully paid for what they promised to deliver, but they delayed the whole thing, even the Windows version. I don't think Harebrained Schemes planned those delays. They happened because something went not according to plans. Backers can blame them now for their unrealistic planning, but let's be honest, it's crowdfunding. It almost never goes completely according to plans.
Then they released the Windows version. Now Linux and Mac backers can blame them that their version got delayed even more, but like most developers using 3rd party engines HS decided to concentrate on the development platform and then later port to different platforms. In my opinion this make sense, because it makes no sense to make porting efforts for issues that get fixed by Unity along the way. At some point they had a completed Windows version, and porting busyness could start. Should they have delayed the release of the Windows version until the ports are ready? I don't think so.
First day support is not realistic in a lot of cases. Short delays are realistic with a ready Windows version, and when there are no big problems porting the game. Even longer delays are realistic when the Windows version had to be released prematurely. I don't think we get anything demanding to be first class citizen. We are simply too few. What we get when we start demanding things is what Larian did after their problems with Linux support of DOS1. Beyond the porting problems they had some real financial problems while we demanded the promised Linux version. They learned from that to never promise ports again.

Proton helps us in two ways:
First, the often quoted hen/egg question. We get more users with more compatible games. New Linux users won't care if the games they can play with Linux are native or not. I don't care a lot! More users will get us more support in the long run.
Second, with Proton Linux users are normal citizen. Priority 1b instead of 2 or 3.
Divinity Original Sin 2 runs on Proton with a little help.

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: nitroflow

Quoting: KimyrielleThis game is one of my bigger disappointments. I backed their Kickstarter, which was advertising a Linux version. Now, I know, I know! A lot of developers say "We will support Linux!!!" and mean "Eh, we might do it a few years after the Windows release, but only if we're not working on another Windows game then." but HBS is a studio with a proven Linux track record and Paradox is probably THE most Linux friendly publisher there is. I really thought this to be a fairly safe bet.

They sent me the game key sure...it's collecting the digital equivalent of dust in my GOG library for how long now? A year?

I guess this just proves you can trust absolutely no one.

That's being a bit dramatic IMO, the game released in April and the beta has been out for two months already and I haven't noticed any problems apart from slow performance and the LC-ALL=C(as in many other unity games under linux) but I've been told that's on par with Windows performance.

Dramatic perhaps, but we shouldn't forget just how low priority GNU/Linux has been. It was supposed to be in an alpha to backers, but never appeared. It was supposed to be simultaneous release (if I recall rightly, so do tell me if I'm wrong there), but that never happened. It's been stalled more than once for dubious reasons (there's their first expansion out before a proper, official, release on GNU/Linux). And it was all well funded, promises made, from their original kickstarter campaign. They shouldn't be getting freebies just because it's _finally_ out.

One reason I really do like Proton is beeing just a bit more of an ordinary citizen..
I sometimes really don't enjoy beeing seen as part of an overly demanding minority.

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Beta or not, it's been running great the past 2 hours!

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Quoting: slaapliedjeInitial test; it's buggered! Narfed screen during character creation, then it gets worse from there, graphical corruption pretty much anytime something moves, and when you're finally in the game you get a black screen with a dot and some text / voice. Voice acting with that little bit is good at least, sometimes games have the worse voice actors.

Same for me!
Funny thing is, I actually played the backer build, without bigger issues.. So maybe the full version is completely raw yet.

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