Quoting: tonRI'm not surprise that Steam Machine may discontinued. Here is very simple question, who is the Valve's target customers for Steam Machine?
- Streamer (legally or not)? Kodi box is cheaper.

- PC gamers? Most of them build their own rig; more powerful and more value for money.

- Console gamers? Exclusive (or timed exclusive) is a key here. I'm remember GoL readers totally disagree with me when I suggest CDPR should sell their game on GOG exclusively.

- "PC as truck" (like late Steve Jobs comment about post-pc era.)? There are more old-school advanced "truck" called laptop.

- People who want try Linux?

- Steam Machine as "benchmark standard device" (like iPhone, one spec hardware) for developers? It requires locking- down/out the device. The problem is Linux is GPL-open. (And that's why Google currently experimenting Fuchsia)

I don't think it ever was a device species at all. I don't know what Valve thought of it when they released it, but for me it was a Linux PC with a controller for the living room. That concept is not dead, nor are the Steam Machines sold. Nothing has failed here, because nothing gets abandoned. Owners of a Steam Machine still have got a Linux PC for the living room and 4000+ games to play.

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Quoting: etonbears

Quoting: NeverthelessLinux wasn't ready at the time Valve announced Steam Machines and SteamOS. It stll isn't quite ready. AMD drivers need time, VR needs time, Vulkan still needs time.
I don't know why Valve came out with it prematurely, but I guess something had to be done at that time, to push Linux development and to slow down Microsoft closing down Windows. Microsoft is doing so now. They are clearly pushing UWP and Windows S-Mode and show the tendency to want to abandon Win32, which Steam needs to exist on Windows. According to his latest statements, at least G. Newell seems to see it that way. So in my opinion abandoning Linux would be an idiotic thing to do by Valve, and the only question is how they plan to push it, and when they think the time is right!

The main driver for Valve has always been the potential for a future Windows to only allow Microsoft signed applications to run, and for Midcosoft to only sign applications that are sold through, and conform to the policies of, the windows store ( copying the Apple iOS model ).

Almost all of the WIN32 API remains in Windows 10, and will continue to exist. WIN32 and COM are the key, lowest level, building blocks for all of Microsoft's other APIs, including UWP. The real issue isn't technical ( Valve could easily produce a UWP Steam Client ), but a matter of commercial control, as they would not get a signed UWP version of the Steam Client without agreeing to give Microsoft a percentage of any revenue gained through it.

As soon as MS restrict Windows 10+ to running only signed applications from the Windows store, Steam for Windows is toast, probably along with GOG, Humble and anyone else that acts as a store-front for Windows applications.

Right! At first it will be "just" S-Mode. Meaning you have to deactivate it to be able to play your Steam, GOG, homebrew games. Windows gamers with game libraries at Steam / GOG / elsewhere will do that. New users will not so easily, because they will be told it's unsafe. That way Microsoft won't have to force people away from Steam. They just cut new user supply to Steam and others.
That's what S-Mode is designed for in my opinion. If Microsoft had only safety in Mind they could have designed a sandbox mode for Win32.

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Quoting: ShmerlI'm a backer and I hope DRM-free release is coming as they promised. In their recent updates they were talking only about Steam.

According to this I'd say GOG is still on.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/783170/discussions/0/1697169163396167381/?ctp=2#c1697169163401462117 [External Link]

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Quoting: 1xok

Quoting: NeverthelessLinux wasn't ready at the time Valve announced Steam Machines and SteamOS. It stll isn't quite ready. AMD drivers need time, VR needs time, Vulkan still needs time.
I don't know why Valve came out with it prematurely, but I guess something had to be done at that time, to push Linux development and to slow down Microsoft closing down Windows.

My opinion:
[TLDR: Officially SteamOS it's about Steam Machines and now about VR, but I don't think that's the real reason.]

I think the people at Valve have to motivate themselves somehow. To say: Okay, let's work on it for 10 years and then see what we do with it is not very motivating. So they came up with Steam Machines and now it's VR. But with VR you can really count the Linux users on one hand. Economically, VR and Linux do not make any sense. Except Valve wants to sell a complete VR console, which I think is even less likely than Steam Machines. This is an absolute niche. At GDC GabeN praised Valve for now being strong in creating hardware and software at the same time. He compared it to Nintendo. But I don't think that's what that's all about in the end. Valve won't become a second Nintendo for VR. The real plan is a completely different one and much less specific.

Valve is currently building large computing clusters to detect cheaters in CSGO and Dota2 using deep learning. At the moment they still use normal CPUs. The whole thing isn't very big yet either. But they also want to offer it to others as a service. So this will grow and maybe they will use graphics units at some point. Of course, this is officially about anti-cheating, but I think Valve has also other reasons to invest in this technology.

I think that Valve and especially GabeN are aware that the PC era is coming to an end in the next two decades. Maybe much sooner. The cloud is becoming increasingly important. PC and console sales are stagnating, while mobile sales have surpassed them already. PubG and Fortnite switch to the mobiles. Steam machines did not fail because they were bad, but simply because the market is completely saturated. This market is no longer growing.

In the cloud, however, things are very different. Apart from Sonys Now, there are currently no major offers for games. The network must continue to grow. But when the train starts rolling it would be too late to develop something like SteamOS. Such a development takes many years. That's why Valve is working on it now.

Anything else makes little sense. Windows is the absolutely dominant OS for desktop computers and gaming. SteamOS or another Linux system will not change this. GabeN must have known that from the beginning. Steam Machines and VR are just nice stories. The truth will happen in large data centers. And Valve has no interest in running it on Windows and having to give Microsoft billions in license payments for it. For a system they don't even control!

Yes, there are lots of things going on. There is VR, Khronos's attempt to unify development around Vulkan (with api conversion tools between Vulkan and Metal / DX12), there is Wine, game streaming (which will not work well with VR for a foreseeable timeframe I guess), consoles ... Who can say what the outcome will be?
One thing seems clear to me: Valve is better off with Linux, and we're too!

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Linux wasn't ready at the time Valve announced Steam Machines and SteamOS. It still isn't quite ready. AMD drivers need time, VR needs time, Vulkan still needs time.
I don't know why Valve came out with it prematurely, but I guess something had to be done at that time, to push Linux development and to slow down Microsoft closing down Windows. Microsoft is doing so now. They are clearly pushing UWP and Windows S-Mode and show the tendency to want to abandon Win32, which Steam needs to exist on Windows. According to his latest statements, at least G. Newell seems to see it that way. So in my opinion abandoning Linux would be an idiotic thing to do by Valve, and the only question is how they plan to push it, and when they think the time is right!

(Edit: typo)

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: LeopardIs PUBG runs with it? No

Is Fortnite runs with it? No

Is League of Legends runs without crashing? Maybe today , unsure for tomorrow

DRM tends not to work in Wine, but what effect does it have on anything? Developers of said games don't have interest in Linux, and if Wine doesn't support them, it means such cases are irrelevant to the idea, that Wine somehow hurts native Linux releases. So your example only disproves such claims.

Wine does support many games in practice, so what Xpander said is correct, that Wine helps people switch to Linux and ditch Windows, thus weakening the catch 22.

And also, let's ask critics or Wine, are they dual booting or not? If they do, they should consider using Wine instead.

If only Steam counted Wine users as Linux users..

I guess we have to find a strategy for that. My suggestions:

1. Use Wine only for games that have no chance for a native Linux version.
2. Tell developers you purchased their games to use them with Wine on Linux, at your expences and risk, because you know there can be no support (as in customer service) for your platform.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: NeverthelessThere are already developers saying they can't deliver a Linux version, but hey, the game works on Wine, why don't you just use that instead? There will be more of those in the future, PLUS Feral and Aspire have harder times porting native Versions.

There are also developers who always claimed they can't support Linux version because they have no time / resources / etc. Wine doesn't change their attitude, they simply don't want to support it.

Wine as an excuse is quite silly, if their own engine supports Linux natively. It's simply rephrasing their "we have no resources for it". How would they have gotten more resources, if Wine wouldn't have existed?

It's easy to say you don't have the resources, even if you had them...
And again, every Linux user purchasing a Windows game for Wine, that still has a chance for a native Linux version, is a -1 for Linux statement.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: NeverthelessThere are already developers saying they can't deliver a Linux version, but hey, the game works on Wine, why don't you just use that instead? There will be more of those in the future, PLUS Feral and Aspire have harder times porting native Versions.

There are also developers who always claimed they can't support Linux version because they have no time / resources / etc. Wine doesn't change their attitude, they simply don't want to support it.

It's just not my point. Linux is the last open gaming platform to be. While it is good to have most games playable on Linux, it is essential to have most of them natively on Linux, because otherwise no one will see a Linux market anymore. Therefore I am not concerned about developers that hate Linux, but about the others to stop native Linux versions, because it's cheaper for them to just point at Wine.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: NeverthelessDefinitely! The question is: What do we do about it? The more Windows titles work with Wine, the less people want to wait for a native version, the less will ask for one, the less demand for Linux games will be seen on Steam.
Wine gamers will get no support for their platform, but count as Windows users. I think we should always be aware of that.

This was discussed at length already. Linux games (I assume you mean native Linux games) depend on engines support for Linux, and engines support is improving quite well, regardless of Wine. Case in point - Unreal, Unity, Cry, Nitrous and etc. So amount of native Linux games is growing healthily.

The only ones who are pressured by Wine competitively, are other wrapper developers such as Feral and VirtualProgramming. They'll have to cope with competition and adapt their approach. For example by open sourcing their own wrappers.

There are already developers saying they can't deliver a Linux version, but hey, the game works on Wine, why don't you just use that instead? There will be more of those in the future, PLUS Feral and Aspire have harder times porting native Versions.

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Quoting: razing32This is interesting
Did not know about the D3d9 one.
Methinks more games shall run soon :)

Definitely! The question is: What do we do about it? The more Windows titles work with Wine, the less people want to wait for a native version, the less will ask for one, the less demand for Linux games will be seen on Steam.
Wine gamers will get no support for their platform, but count as Windows users. I think we should always be aware of that.

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