Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: const

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: constdo something important like further improving SteamOS (which is their most important product for us, by far).

I would have said least important. It's just another distro, of which we have plenty.

Did you actually try it? In it's core, yes, it's mainly just Linux, but Valve added a lot to the experience.

I'm not saying it's bad. But I'm not against distros in general either. Lots of them add stuff, and then other distros and desktop environments step up their own game. GamerOS adds stuff, too, as I understand it. So, sure, I'm absolutely willing to believe SteamOS adds a nice bit of user experience and is a good fit for the role they adapted it for. Although I put SteamOS as such in a separate category from the UI stuff that applies specifically to the deck--I see SteamOS as what you get when you go into "desktop mode". And really, that could be any decent distro, wouldn't matter much.

That nice SteamOS (as such) experience is not strategically important. The Deck itself is strategically important. Proton is strategically important. Even the Steam Runtime Environment has some importance. I would even say that the Steam Deck's gaming side UI, which is independent of the distro you run it on, is more important than SteamOS itself. SteamOS, particularly in the context of "something we want Valve to spend lots more of their energy developing", because it's an important product "for us"--no, SteamoS isn't important, and it's certainly not important for any "us" who doesn't own a Steam Deck.

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: const

Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: constdo something important like further improving SteamOS (which is their most important product for us, by far).

I would have said least important. It's just another distro, of which we have plenty.

Did you actually try it? In it's core, yes, it's mainly just Linux, but Valve added a lot to the experience.

I'm not saying it's bad. But I'm not against distros in general either. Lots of them add stuff, and then other distros and desktop environments step up their own game. GamerOS adds stuff, too, as I understand it. So, sure, I'm absolutely willing to believe SteamOS adds a nice bit of user experience and is a good fit for the role they adapted it for. Although I put SteamOS as such in a separate category from the UI stuff that applies specifically to the deck--I see SteamOS as what you get when you go into "desktop mode". And really, that could be any decent distro, wouldn't matter much.

That nice SteamOS (as such) experience is not strategically important. The Deck itself is strategically important. Proton is strategically important. Even the Steam Runtime Environment has some importance. I would even say that the Steam Deck's gaming side UI, which is independent of the distro you run it on, is more important than SteamOS itself. SteamOS, particularly in the context of "something we want Valve to spend lots more of their energy developing", because it's an important product "for us"--no, SteamoS isn't important, and it's certainly not important for any "us" who doesn't own a Steam Deck.

Then we disagree. SteamOS and gameUI are connected in a lot of ways. GameUI so far is developed for the Deck on SteamOS, they are pretty much developed in sync. You actually upgrade the OS through gameUI and gameUI lets you even load up the DE inside. Both make the experience on Deck and if you put SteamOS on other devices, the experience will be pretty much the same.
Put SteamOS on an Aya handheld and map the Steam and burger buttons and you get a much better experience then with Windows. Put SteamOS on a couch PC and it will feel like a console. If Valve manages to make other hardware producers integrate SteamOS well, things might finally start cascading.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: constdo something important like further improving SteamOS (which is their most important product for us, by far).

I would have said least important. It's just another distro, of which we have plenty.

Did you actually try it? In it's core, yes, it's mainly just Linux, but Valve added a lot to the experience. Partly with their new UI that isn't open source, partly with very clunky bash scripts in the default users home, partly with how the system is preconfigured and maintained. Yet these things add up and make for a great package.
People love SteamOS on the Deck. I don't believe any other distro would have had that effect. Contrary, most users would have ditched them for Windows in no time.
On the other end, SteamOS has a chance to extend to other portable PCs, couch boxes, VR headsets etc.
Will I install it on my desktop? Never
Would I consider it or a clone/fork for a couch PC if get a new main machine? Absolutely
Would I put it on an Aya instead of Windows? You bet.

Up till now, people chose Linux for the OS and luckily we could also game on it. SteamOS can actually enrich the gaming experience.

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[quote=fenglengshun]

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: fenglengshunIs FF7R a GNU+Linux native game? No, it's a Windows game running via a compatibility layer.

It's a step by step. The last time they forced a Linux native was the Steam Machine, and that failed spectacularly. They needed to make Linux a viable target with enough marketshare, which means requiring softwares to work with it without adding work on the developer's side.

Proton is currently the best compromise that Valve has- and for any game using DirectX 12 and below, it works as a good stopgap to get enough people on-board to become a legitimate development target while other areas catch up. And I think it's working as even Epic has started to decide mention Linux compatibility.

Do you have a source on Valve requiring Windows release on their store though? As far as I can see, it's more of a developer thing, in that it really doesn't make sense to not release a Windows version if you want your game to be played by more than twelve people.

And no, Microsoft can't really buy Valve out, assuming they even want to which is important as they are a private company, without getting into an antitrust. They were already skirting the line with Activision, Valve would too risky for them and probably not that much benefit for them given that they'd rather push their Game Pass model which is rapidly gaining ground.

Steam demanding a windows executable is not a myth, though that probably still routes back to times when Steam only supported Windows. Now they could invest time into discussing the pros and cons of that and precious developer time in changing the restriction to whatever comes out ouf the discussion or just go on and do something important like further improving SteamOS (which is their most important product for us, by far).

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Quoting: sobkasAfter reservation it showed "After Q2", but sometime in between, it changed into "After Q3 (October 2022 or later)".
I didn't get any mail or info about this change, good job Valve.

Nothing changed, the info just got a little more specific...

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Quoting: jordicomaI registered after one or two weeks after the initial date and I have Q3+.
I'm start to worry that when I get one its to obsolete. This chip it's zen2, and amd already has zen3+, and before the end of the year will (probably) have zen4+rdna3 in one chip that surely will be more eficient and powerful.
When steam deck was anuncied it had top of the line technology. Now is starting to be some competition.
But at least steamdeck has linux than the others doesn't have, that gives (for me) a big plus on value.
And its not fair comparing the revenue from steamdeck or a game (even AAA), the steamdeck cost 10x more.

It's not a desktop machine, not even a couch console but a portable device and plenty powerful at that. Also, the GPU will still be very very up-to-date technology. I can see myself using this machine for years to come.
It's not only the cpu and gpu that counts, this thing is a whopping package.

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Quoting: StoneColdSpiderI have zero interest is the EGS..... They burnt my bridge a long time ago and as far as im concerned it can stay burnt....

That's all true and I feel the same, yet if Linux gaming is supposed to grow and maybe even to stay as relevant as it is, we need compatibility with these annoying services and launchers. See the SteamDeck forums for reference. A lot of users already bought into these ecosystems and for them to join us on our lovely OS of choice, transition needs to be as painless as possible. That's why this is good news. It's less of a "I can now" then "Those who *need* this can now use Linux"

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Quoting: itsNottingWhat about the updates in discover in Steam Deck? KDE updates (and others) are popping up.

Can I just simply update the individual parts of the OS? Or will they be handled by the SteamOS updates through gaming mode?

Depends on your filesystems rw state. If everything but home is readonly, you can't update anything but flatpaks from discover. I'd wait for the official update from valve, though I really want to try it :)

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: slaapliedje

Quoting: itscalledrealityEr…we’re halfway through the year and there’s very little about fixing multimonitor support, one of the biggest hurdles for those switching to Linux. I’m hoping that suggested promise earlier in the year is actually met. The stitched-together giant desktop just doesn’t work well.

It’s great they learned about color detection so they can apply accent colors and other vanity features but who does that really help?

Was talking to a colleague about this yesterday. Windows still has shit multimonitor support as well. Funny enough, the last time I remember really great multimonitor support was when I had a Matrox card...

Quoting: itscalledrealityNope it's not games, it's definitely how KDE handles multimonitors. When my computer sleeps then wakes again, it does not properly restore my desktop and monitors to their previous state

I don't think sleeping works as well as it should in general, never mind waking up... oh wait, you're talking about computers... my comment still stands.

What issues does Windows have with multimonitor support? I havent seen any

I use multimonitor at work on Windows - it's not exactly a shit-show, but it's not any better than what I had under gnome when I last used multi-monitor, about 2 years ago. Maybe a bit worse - Windows frequently (well, a couple of times a week) just doesn't detect the monitor when it's plugged in. App windows frequently (all the time) start on the wrong window too, Windows seems to prefer the primary (laptop) monitor for just about everything, which just gets a bit annoying. A few times a week, I can plug in my external monitor and Chrome is just... gone. Technically it's still running, but it's shot off into the ether - somewhere miles up to the top-left, I think? I have to close it down and restart it for it to re-appear. Biggest pain though is that when I sit at a new hot-desk at work, there's an identical Dell monitor for me to plug into, but despite that, Windows treats it like it's never heard of such a thing before, and I have to reposition it over to the left of my laptop again. God knows how many of those "monitor position" profiles my registry has stored now. I bet it's HK_LOCAL_MACHINE too, so I'll lose them all when I get a new laptop and I'll have to re-train them all again...

But multi-monitor support is incredibly complex. For example, if you have your apps all laid out nicely across two monitors, then unplug your hub/monitor, all your apps squeeze onto one monitor, which is expected. Then plug the external monitor back in again, everything just stays on that squeezed up screen and you have to lay them all out again, which is a pain. But is that expected? Or should they re-position back to the multi-monitor layout? I know I'd like them to, but I bet there are plenty of use-cases out there where that's a bad idea.

How about when modals pop up - should they use the primary monitor, the monitor of the window creating the modal, or the monitor which has the mouse pointer (what about multiple mouse pointers...)? What about notifications, where do they pop up? What about alt-tab, or Overview?

What about when to resize window contents when dragging a window between two monitors with different DPI settings?

What about multiple refresh rates. Or freesync?

I mean, it's all solvable, and it's frustrating that it's still NOT solved, but it feels like both Windows and all the various Linux DEs still have to figure this stuff out.

Nothing that you describe does Linux do better (as much as I love linux, lets be real here)...I run linux on an Nvidia card, so that means no wayland support - and if you look at common complaints about xorg its that it has atrocious dual screen support, particularly on kde.

Don't even get me started on how neither SDDM nor LightDM support projecting to external screen on boot on a laptop, a basic feature available on windows and one which KDE devs refuse to fix.

Ahm.. I have a 2-3 monitor setup, running KDE on SDDM and my login screen is always showing on all active monitors. One of the screens is regularly turned on and off and I have no issues. I can actually choose the loginscreen I want to prompt (though I always wonder why it isn't just mirrored). I suspect configuration issues? I really wonder what all of you are even talking about.
My only issue with changing monitor setups is damn java awt applications getting unusable, but that's not KDEs fault.

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Quoting: Purple Library GuyFeels kind of strange to hear that the NVidia driver has a Vulkan feature before the open source AMD driver. Maybe this is more common than I realize, but I'd gotten the impression that other than for their own in-house stuff the NVidia Linux drivers tended to lag.

I'm under the impression, NVidia handled Vulkan features like a race. They won quite often, but once AMD got something out first, they shifted priorities. :)

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Quoting: stylon

Quoting: constWhile it's certainly a very different approach, Hades might be another alternative. Sure, you'll have to rebuild all the time, but the gameplay is just so addictive and the lore caught my interest much more then most arpgs ever did.

Yeah I liked the look of Hades when I first saw it in action - but then I realised it was a rogue-like. Not really a big fan of those type of games at all...

Would have thought the same, but Hades managed to pull me in, anyway. Maybe because the individual runs are merged into a story. You get just as much character development and lore as in most RPGs. Everything you get, you get for a reason and every individual build is based on decisions, rather then pure luck. Experimenting with the different weapons and powerups keep the gameplay fresh, so it doesn't feel like grinding but pushing for a goal.

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