Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: scainePretty sure that if you risk being arrested for using a product, you tend to be fairly finicky about what that product (Steam in this case) is reporting to some global HQ. So I'm with Ultra on that point.

Well, but it's a global HQ, not a Chinese HQ. And how likely are they to report people for insisting on being their customer and making them profit?

This gets murky actually. Valve might not be under any jurisdiction that Valve reveal data to a Chinese regulator. But regardless, I doubt Chinese citizens, fearing for their lives would care to take any risks.

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Quoting: Mountain Man

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Mountain Manbecause the majority of people simply don't want to play games that way

There's no evidence for this though, is there? I guess I'm doing the same - projecting my love of VR and optimism of how it changes gaming, as a counterpoint to your negativity on the same tech. I don't really have any evidence either, beyond the fact that the biggest game console maker in the world saw enough profit from VR the first time around to support a second iteration of that product.

It's still too expensive overall, but with Sony and Meta still pushing hard and Valve to a lesser degree, maybe it'll still take off one day.

Ultimately, these things are hard to predict. I remember walking around in the late 90's with my beloved Sony P90 and then latterly with my awesome sliding MDA and thinking that surely, this was it, this tech will change the world. But I had to wait nearly a decade before Apple launched the iPhone and it all clicked.

Will that happen with VR? Who knows. I doubt it has the same broad appeal. Maybe it'll be AR that breaks down the niche.

Edit: I still have that MDA! I lost its stylus, sadly, but otherwise probably still boots... if only I can find a mini-USB charger! He was such a chunky boi!

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The evidence is in the numbers. VR has been available to the masses at affordable prices for nearly a decade, but people simply aren't buying, and many who are buying are only dusting off there headsets every now and then to play the hot new "This changes everything!" game before putting it back on the shelf. I think the VR market is pretty well saturated at this point and Will grow very little in the coming years.

True. But it's only been good for about 3-4 years. Also, mobile phones were around for decades before they caught on too.

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Pretty sure that if you risk being arrested for using a product, you tend to be fairly finicky about what that product (Steam in this case) is reporting to some global HQ. So I'm with Ultra on that point.

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Quoting: Mountain Manbecause the majority of people simply don't want to play games that way

There's no evidence for this though, is there? I guess I'm doing the same - projecting my love of VR and optimism of how it changes gaming, as a counterpoint to your negativity on the same tech. I don't really have any evidence either, beyond the fact that the biggest game console maker in the world saw enough profit from VR the first time around to support a second iteration of that product.

It's still too expensive overall, but with Sony and Meta still pushing hard and Valve to a lesser degree, maybe it'll still take off one day.

Ultimately, these things are hard to predict. I remember walking around in the late 90's with my beloved Sony P90 and then latterly with my awesome sliding MDA and thinking that surely, this was it, this tech will change the world. But I had to wait nearly a decade before Apple launched the iPhone and it all clicked.

Will that happen with VR? Who knows. I doubt it has the same broad appeal. Maybe it'll be AR that breaks down the niche.

Edit: I still have that MDA! I lost its stylus, sadly, but otherwise probably still boots... if only I can find a mini-USB charger! He was such a chunky boi!

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Quoting: ArtenYou cant argue epic lied them, when they had engine at least 3 years in hands

I give up with you. If you can't understand that a) pivoting the engine even just a year into development is a massive undertaking and that b) they were told they didn't need to pivot anyway because Epic were fixing the engine issues (and then didn't) then we're done.

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Quoting: Mountain Man"If people didn't care, then the companies wouldn't be hyping it" is backwards logic. They're hyping it because they want people to care. That's the whole point of advertising.

But they're hyping the second generation of their product. Clearly enough people did care or there wouldn't be a Sony VR 2, a Vive 2, an Occulus... whatever.

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Quoting: itscalledreality

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: ArtenWhat childish atitude?

Insulting a well-established gaming studio because Epic's failed promises led to said studio not releasing on our platform. Childish.

Also, ignoring the extraordinary lengths that the studio went to trying to work around those failed promises.

There’s nothing childish, this is a consumer hobby. People paid money for an idea and didn’t get their purchase. Telling people they should just buy the game and be happy with it because “developers work hard” is childish fan talk.

Ah, no. Context is king. First, I didn't say "be happy with it". Criticism is valid and should be encouraged. I said insulting the devs is childish.

Second, there are plenty of devs on Kickstarter who absolutely took the piss. My point here is that RFG didn't. I'm getting tired of saying it, but read Corben's history of how we arrived here - RFG went absolutely above and beyond to make the Linux port and were shafted by Epic.

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Quoting: ArtenWhat childish atitude?

Insulting a well-established gaming studio because Epic's failed promises led to said studio not releasing on our platform. Childish.

Also, ignoring the extraordinary lengths that the studio went to trying to work around those failed promises.

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Quoting: EagleDeltaOh, I know that many people here would not see it as "Wine is native". From a philisophical perspective that's right, from a Technical perspective, though, WINE/DXVK/vkd3d are "native" in that they are APIs that are making native calls and that's exactly the purpose of an API is to provide an interface between two or more pieces of software.

Sure, but my point was that the "technical" explanation is moot. No-one will describe a wine-wrapped game as native.

Quoting: tohurtbh people need to get over themselves and just admit running windows games on Linux is far more superior to running crappy half a** linux binary ports

Anything half-assed will be inferior. But a good native port will outperform a good proton wrap any day simply because no translations are required. I have a beefy enough PC that I genuinely don't care (I'm "over myself") but there are plenty of gamers out there who will feel the pain from Proton's performance penalty, whether it's 5%, or 20%.

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Quoting: Mountain ManIt's not the cost that's keeping people away but lack of interest. VR is running into the same brick wall as 3D television: people simply don't care.

Perhaps, but I suspect it's the cost. If it was a lack of care, I doubt Sony would be hyping their new VR kit, nor would Meta be hyping their shitty metaverse. Anyone who's tried (good) VR and didn't feel sick wants more of it, but the cost is still sky high.

Quoting: TheSHEEEPIf you can afford a PC that could run Alyx, you could affort a VR headset. Nobody needs a Valve Index to get into VR.

The price of the Index kit on Steam is still the same as I paid three years ago - £919. That's only slightly less than I paid for my (then) PC with its 32Gb RAM, AMD 3900X and Sapphire RX5700, a (then) top end spec. Don't know how much you earn, but that's way (WAY) outside of "hobby" funds for me.

So I'll say it again - it's the cost that prevents wider uptake.

Sony VR 2 is roughly £550 - still £75 more expensive than an actual PS5. So again, the cost will massively restrict the market.

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