There is possibility that their tested it, but on experimental SteamOS 3.0, where everything worked...

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Quoting: GuestSeems to me like it is exceedingly difficult for any PC game store to be profitable unless they sell Steam keys (or they are a big publisher profitable in other areas), such is the nature of Valve's stranglehold on PC gaming. I know so many linux users don't like a bad word said about Valve but their market power should concern everyone

I think the root cause in this case is more on the side of Epic. Their aggressive war against Steam, in my opinion, hit GOG hard. Until then, GOG was the main competitor for Steam and was slowly building positions. Then came Epic, it got low prices, and publishers jumped on it because it didn't have that "annoying" DRM-free policy. And on top of that, Epic bribed them to exclusivity.

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Quoting: PoliticsOfStarvingI think since of the defensiveness people have around these charges is just how knee jerk they are.

We wait sometimes 9 months long for certain bug fixes -_-
We make feature requests in the hope we'll see new features added in the next few years.
We patiently wait for Wayland to mature...

But then a Windows-centric YouTube celebrity had a relatively minor problem compared to what we're used to, and we start to see just how quickly things can change for us.
Add to this:
That person is not even a Linux user.
They're not going to be a Linux user.
To a lot of us the problem could have been easily avoided in the first place. (The "problem" wasn't a problem, so to speak).

The arguments or responses I'm seeing made in here is very much understandable given the circumstances.

It's a matter of principle which gets people backs up.

For Luke he may stay on linux for work. He has been on mint before and left because have some problems which has been resolved...

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Another video is interesting :-) (they have it on floatplane, free access on youtube later)
I hope that nvidia react same way as APT devolepers :-D And try fix what he criticize :-D
In another point, some script which he used has already been updated and now has instruction how run script :-)

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Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: AussieEeveeThere is a tiny little warning blended in with all the other white noise on the screen, and blaming Linus is just silly.

TINY? lol - dude, there was NO "white noise". There's FIRST an explicit warnings, very clearly put, AND info on what exact packages are about to be installed (for you to make up your own mind), then ANOTHER very explicit warning AND you're required to type a bloody SENTENCE to get through with it.
If that ain't clear enough then you're not really mature to use a system that gives you full control. You're supposed to READ what the system tells you. Read, and comprehend.

With great powers comes great responsibilities - and that goes for the package managers too. Most definitely.

But if you're after a OS that completely PADS you inside a fuzzy box where you can do nothing to harm you - well then Linux is not, was never and hopefully never will be your right choice.

Are you aware about incident has been on Pop!_OS? Beginer friendly distro?

Far be it from me to continue what is turning toxic, but it's hard not to point out that the problem was actually that the install from the gui didn't work and didn't break the system, and it took googling, following random comments from the 'net, and a command line to actually "break" it (not really broken, just without a graphical desktop).

If the reaction from (and I keep wanting to type POS, even though I know the bad humour in that) had been to do exactly what KDE has done here, would the conversation be different now?

And reason why is get to googling is gui fault. Gui can more explicitly say "try later or report error" and when you google it anyway apt can force you to write "Yes, remove esencial packages", or "Yes, potentialy break system" instead of "Yes, do as I say" becasue "Yes, do as I say" tells nothing.
Migrating Windows users dont know about writing sentence is somethink to be aware of.
I did not say that APT fix is best way. What i prefere is "Yes, potentionaly break system" and/or hide everethink from output except warnings/errors and and instruction to write "Yes, potentionaly break system" and another option "write 'detail' for full information"... That is my prefered way how handle this.

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Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: AussieEeveeThere is a tiny little warning blended in with all the other white noise on the screen, and blaming Linus is just silly.

TINY? lol - dude, there was NO "white noise". There's FIRST an explicit warnings, very clearly put, AND info on what exact packages are about to be installed (for you to make up your own mind), then ANOTHER very explicit warning AND you're required to type a bloody SENTENCE to get through with it.
If that ain't clear enough then you're not really mature to use a system that gives you full control. You're supposed to READ what the system tells you. Read, and comprehend.

With great powers comes great responsibilities - and that goes for the package managers too. Most definitely.

But if you're after a OS that completely PADS you inside a fuzzy box where you can do nothing to harm you - well then Linux is not, was never and hopefully never will be your right choice.

Are you aware about incident has been on Pop!_OS? Beginer friendly distro?

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: LungDrago

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: CatKiller

• developer promises Mac & Linux support


• developer breaks promise, demonstrating that they can't be trusted


• developer promises Steam Deck support


• ...

• Linux users happily buy developer's Windows-exclusive product


• …

Love it or hate it, such a world we are living in. Linux is irrelevant. This story will (I suppose) prove this developer's initial assertion of the market was spot-on. It is better to ignore Linux completely -- less hassle that way and no real monetary loss.

Speak for yourself. I only buy Windows-only games at absolutely rock bottom prices and rarely even then - most of my Windows library post-2013 is from Humble Monthly/Choice. I've bought several native titles at full price though.

Also, I tend to remember developer's antics. I'm not buying from these guys - they promised Linux support, then dropped it like a hot potato once they were funded. Absolute fraud move. I have no time for them. They're up there with THQ Nordic for their 8chan "shout out to Mark" antics and Epic Games for their exclusivity bull.

Before KC:D is released I was at prague fest where one of the speakers was one of the founders of Warhorse. At the time of the questions, I asked him to support Linux. The situation was such that at a small event in Czech he could comment on it openly, unlike the company as a whole, which was bound by agreements with crytek. Cryengin's support for Linux was in a much more desperate state than they were told. They didn't have the strength to do what Cloud Imperium Games is doing now, which is rewrite the engine. I wouldn't call it an Absolute fraud move, not from warhorse.

Unfortunately as can be seen in this comment section, a number of Linux gamers are, uh, let's call them principled people and in the eyes of this part of the community Warhorse Studios is the devil incarnate in spite of the truth and the details around the situation.
I don't want to point any fingers around here, partly because I think we are all to blame for this in varying degrees, but I have the impression that a large reason for Linux support being as hard to get for games as it is now is due to the fact that we are simply put a tough crowd to please in general.

I'd argue the opposite. Were incredibly easy to please. We just want what's promised and to be treated equally.

Every time the Linux "community" lashed out it's been because of either broken promises or appalling issues with a shoddy release. That's not high standards though, it's a basic requirement for respect.

We tend to be enthusiastically supportive if a developer gives us a perfomant native release. And we condemn developers who lie to us, or apply double standards to their products.

(Community is in quotes because Linux is still weirdly tribal and I'm not sure there's a huge sense of community that binds us together. Although, maybe I am positively influenced by the GOL community which is largely superb.)

But the situation is that it is not always the game developer's turn to break the promise. You have a situation where crytek promises that their engine will be usable under Linux to the game developer. Based on this promise, the developer himself promises to support Linux.

Crytek then doesn't keep his promise, and what else does the developer have left? It's true that the Warhorses didn't keep their promise, but not through their own fault.

I don't think it's a coincidence that there's still none with native Linux support between cryengin games. I'm guessing star citizen will be the first, but they're rewriting the engine themselves.

As a consumer, you don't tend to care about who's "fault" it is. Warhorse promised Linux support, and it never materialised. Was it Crytek's fault? Hmmm, according to Warhorse's Kickstarter FAQ:

About platforms: we are using proven technology (Cryengine by CryTek) that runs on both PS4 and Xbox One, as well as on Windows PC, Mac and Linux. While we are developing on PC, we definitely want to bring the game to other platforms. While there should be nothing but technical problems with Linux and Mac, on closed platforms we need to deal with the platform holders and we cannot prejudge their decision.

Doesn't sound like Crytek's fault. It's "proven" technology, apparently. Probably is though... but that's still a bad look for Warhorse, in my books, since it doesn't sound like they even bothered to look into the state of play before over-promising. My "total fraud move" comment is probably unjustified, though.

And at least, as Ehvis notes, they refunded (several confirmed as much on the Kickstart comments page).

If you're evaluating a product, you're right that only its parameters matter. But if you want to rate developers, it's stupid to ignore why they didn't keep their promises, because they may have relevant reasons for doing so, which they were here.

Proven technology is on other platforms. Cryengine has no Linux or Mac game. Crytek, according to what I was told, promised to support Linux in better condition than they delivered, and on this was based the promise of warhorse.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: LungDrago

Quoting: Arten

Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: CatKiller

• developer promises Mac & Linux support


• developer breaks promise, demonstrating that they can't be trusted


• developer promises Steam Deck support


• ...

• Linux users happily buy developer's Windows-exclusive product


• …

Love it or hate it, such a world we are living in. Linux is irrelevant. This story will (I suppose) prove this developer's initial assertion of the market was spot-on. It is better to ignore Linux completely -- less hassle that way and no real monetary loss.

Speak for yourself. I only buy Windows-only games at absolutely rock bottom prices and rarely even then - most of my Windows library post-2013 is from Humble Monthly/Choice. I've bought several native titles at full price though.

Also, I tend to remember developer's antics. I'm not buying from these guys - they promised Linux support, then dropped it like a hot potato once they were funded. Absolute fraud move. I have no time for them. They're up there with THQ Nordic for their 8chan "shout out to Mark" antics and Epic Games for their exclusivity bull.

Before KC:D is released I was at prague fest where one of the speakers was one of the founders of Warhorse. At the time of the questions, I asked him to support Linux. The situation was such that at a small event in Czech he could comment on it openly, unlike the company as a whole, which was bound by agreements with crytek. Cryengin's support for Linux was in a much more desperate state than they were told. They didn't have the strength to do what Cloud Imperium Games is doing now, which is rewrite the engine. I wouldn't call it an Absolute fraud move, not from warhorse.

Unfortunately as can be seen in this comment section, a number of Linux gamers are, uh, let's call them principled people and in the eyes of this part of the community Warhorse Studios is the devil incarnate in spite of the truth and the details around the situation.
I don't want to point any fingers around here, partly because I think we are all to blame for this in varying degrees, but I have the impression that a large reason for Linux support being as hard to get for games as it is now is due to the fact that we are simply put a tough crowd to please in general.

I'd argue the opposite. Were incredibly easy to please. We just want what's promised and to be treated equally.

Every time the Linux "community" lashed out it's been because of either broken promises or appalling issues with a shoddy release. That's not high standards though, it's a basic requirement for respect.

We tend to be enthusiastically supportive if a developer gives us a perfomant native release. And we condemn developers who lie to us, or apply double standards to their products.

(Community is in quotes because Linux is still weirdly tribal and I'm not sure there's a huge sense of community that binds us together. Although, maybe I am positively influenced by the GOL community which is largely superb.)

But the situation is that it is not always the game developer's turn to break the promise. You have a situation where crytek promises that their engine will be usable under Linux to the game developer. Based on this promise, the developer himself promises to support Linux.

Crytek then doesn't keep his promise, and what else does the developer have left? It's true that the Warhorses didn't keep their promise, but not through their own fault.

I don't think it's a coincidence that there's still none with native Linux support between cryengin games. I'm guessing star citizen will be the first, but they're rewriting the engine themselves.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: Alm888

Quoting: CatKiller

• developer promises Mac & Linux support


• developer breaks promise, demonstrating that they can't be trusted


• developer promises Steam Deck support


• ...

• Linux users happily buy developer's Windows-exclusive product


• …

Love it or hate it, such a world we are living in. Linux is irrelevant. This story will (I suppose) prove this developer's initial assertion of the market was spot-on. It is better to ignore Linux completely -- less hassle that way and no real monetary loss.

Speak for yourself. I only buy Windows-only games at absolutely rock bottom prices and rarely even then - most of my Windows library post-2013 is from Humble Monthly/Choice. I've bought several native titles at full price though.

Also, I tend to remember developer's antics. I'm not buying from these guys - they promised Linux support, then dropped it like a hot potato once they were funded. Absolute fraud move. I have no time for them. They're up there with THQ Nordic for their 8chan "shout out to Mark" antics and Epic Games for their exclusivity bull.

Before KC:D is released I was at prague fest where one of the speakers was one of the founders of Warhorse. At the time of the questions, I asked him to support Linux. The situation was such that at a small event in Czech he could comment on it openly, unlike the company as a whole, which was bound by agreements with crytek. Cryengin's support for Linux was in a much more desperate state than they were told. They didn't have the strength to do what Cloud Imperium Games is doing now, which is rewrite the engine. I wouldn't call it an Absolute fraud move, not from warhorse.

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Quoting: LinuxwarperI would say at heart of this push is Proton. Consider this, without Proton both gaming on Deck (using SteamOS) and Linux desktop PCs would fail to meet people's expectations, even those who are willing to make a small to moderate compromise. Deck existing has made more people aware of Proton and Linux. With new hardware alot news are thrown around, people read and watch these news.

It keeps people talking about Linux, Deck and Proton. Content creators, who aren't familiar faces in Linux space, are making content about Linux and Proton. Marketing something helps but if what you are marketing isn't good then people will not bother. Linux gaming is marketable to a degree it has not been before. Lots games play fine and the platform isn't missing as much features as before. DLSS, FSR, RT and more is available.

LTT's video "Install Linux instead of Windows 11" [External Link] has been viewed 1.7M times. Other videos about Linux they have made has also gotten million views or more. How can more people use Linux if they haven't heard of it? With Deck so many people know of it, and Proton is making Linux viable for gaming.

I don't think you're going to enjoy the new Linux miniseries from LTT.
And I don't think it's going to draw too many users to Linux. The first thing Linus did was break the DE in Pop_os! And he just installed Steam from the repositories.

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