Quoting: Guest

Quoting: NeverthelessAs already said here, maybe one day we have unified gaming platform for all OSs. It could be based upon Win32 and Vulkan. Personally I have no problem with that. Still GOG and itch.io users won't like it, at least until those shops adopt a solution like Proton themselves.

What people who develop things outside of Steam? What if game doesn't "just work"? What about multiplayer? What about Proton specific bugs?

I like Proton a lot, but watching not only accept, but encourage this type of thing really burns me. I've seen people on reddit and talk about using Proton for games that developers had already planned native support and TELLING those devs to release with Proton.

Proton isn't a cancer. I genuinely believe that it's positive force for Linux. I've even given advice to another developer on how to get whitelisted. But the idea that you just can't wait or not holding individual devs to account for their actions(by not buying, by reviewing,or by refunding i.e. don't be abusive) is ludicrous.

I would never tell a developer to only develop for Proton, because there is not just Steam, but also other stores. without Proton in place (yet).
What I meant is: As much as I would like everyone to use Linux or some other open/free OS that might evolve, who knows, the future might lead to a unified gaming platform around vulkan.... etc..
It might not be ideal, but I could live far better with that, than with MS walled garden gaming...

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Cheeseness

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: CheesenessI was speaking specifically to the case of Event[0], but it likely applies here too. How accurate is the developer's assessment that the problems are driver related? As Liam highlights in the article, there's not really enough information here to know for sure.

Reading through the thread that Liam linked, it has the hallmarks of a known issue that can cause garbage values to be used for screen/window resolution. I haven't dug into the specifics of the problem for a while, but IIRC, it was either an X or a xrandr update that caused the problem to manifest, and it became redundant when Unity switched to SDL for windowing.

Don't ask me if he's right.. :) However, the result will be the same either way. The developer will not fix the problems, and I guess it will not be easy to prove him wrong with his assessment, even for someone who knows better like maybe you..
Now, if the dev chooses to leave the native version online, as it is, and if the customers get the option to choose versions, who will support them? The dev for the native version or Valve for Steam Play? I think it's possible Valve won't support a game that has a native version, and the dev clearly states it's broken, so he won't either. And maybe that is one good reason he pulled it of the store. Still, who supports GOG and itch.io users now?

A user in the thread has just mentioned they're able to run the demo after deleting their prefs file, which is in line with my suspicions, so it looks like the game was never "broken" per se, and there's a simple client-side workaround.

As for whose responsibility it is to support users, people using Proton are Valve's problem to deal with, people using Linux-specific versions are the developer's problem to support. That's what was laid down in the Steam Play update/Proton announcement post [External Link], and I think it's fair to demand that that be adhered to.

I see all kinds of problems. Maybe in this case the technical side is clear (to you), but this will not be the case every time, there might be even more problems with the same game, or it might really and completely break for other reasons at a later time. There will be customers who will demand on a working native version, because they refuse to use Proton or are unable to use a workaround to get the Proton driven Windows version running. Even when (or if) Valve decides to give users the choice which version they want to use, they might decide to not whitelist (and therefore support) games with a native version in place. I don't even think it were a good idea if they did, as I think it might lead to more neglected native versions.
I like the idea of one fully supported native version with a chance to choose the unsupported protonized version for those who know what their doing, or no native version at all, and a Proton version, fully supported by Valve instead.
Yes I know, this is not the perfect solution for this case, as there is already a native version on GOG and itch.io.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: CheesenessI was speaking specifically to the case of Event[0], but it likely applies here too. How accurate is the developer's assessment that the problems are driver related? As Liam highlights in the article, there's not really enough information here to know for sure.

Reading through the thread that Liam linked, it has the hallmarks of a known issue that can cause garbage values to be used for screen/window resolution. I haven't dug into the specifics of the problem for a while, but IIRC, it was either an X or a xrandr update that caused the problem to manifest, and it became redundant when Unity switched to SDL for windowing.

Don't ask me if he's right.. :) However, the result will be the same either way. The developer will not fix the problems, and I guess it will not be easy to prove him wrong with his assessment, even for someone who knows better like maybe you..
Now, if the dev chooses to leave the native version online, as it is, and if the customers get the option to choose versions, who will support them? The dev for the native version or Valve for Steam Play? I think it's possible Valve won't support a game that has a native version, and the dev clearly states it's broken, so he won't either. And maybe that is one good reason he pulled it of the store. Still, who supports GOG and itch.io users now?

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Cheeseness

Quoting: HoriI don't know about this particular game but I have 2 games in my library that are completely broken on Linux and I'd rather play them through Proton instead. One is Sheltered which worked like 2 years ago and since then it always failed to start at all, and the second is event[0] which never worked for me, being unable to start up as well.

This highlights an awkward sitaution that often goes overlooked. I can't speak for Sheltered, but Event[0] worked for me before release, and continues to.

Statistically speaking, it is normal for any given game to just not work for a few users. Individually, none of us really have a chance to appreciate what the majority of other Linux users are experiencing, and there's a tendency for Linux users to assume that their own experiences represent everybody's (both positively and negatively - I still have people telling me that DotT and FT are perfect ports, when they've only run it on one machine).

Should a Linux-specific version of a game that runs for some people but not for others be removed to appease those that can't? I'd be pretty ticked off if a Linux-specific version of a game that I was enjoying was removed.

With it being possible for users to run stuff in Proton themselves (either manually or with a helper [External Link], it's hard to see much value in asking for Linux-specific versions of games to be removed if they're work for someone (and even when they're not, it's probably better to focus on the selling of non-working games being Valve's responsibility to deal with).

So you think it to be the best solution the developer leaves a game on the shelf that is working for almost no one anymore, because of its incompatibilities with newer drivers? No big deal maybe if you can easily choose which version you want to use, but even when that is finally possible, maybe there should be a warning at least..

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: SchattenspiegelDevelopers should not be allowed to pull native versions after selling them.
What we need is the ability to choose whether we want to install the native or foreign version in Steam.

If a developer is willing or forced by circumstances to take the reputation hit of recommending the non-native version over the busted native one - so be it, but the choice which version to use needs to stay with the customer.

I sympathise, but the problem in this case is, the developer states to be unable to make the broken Linux version work again. He didn't change anything. It just stopped working, because of incompatibilities of software over which he has no control. It might be hard to make him liable. I don't even know if it's a good idea to go that far..

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: iiariI have zero problem with this at all. If it results in more playable, more reliable titles for Linux players, I'm fine with that. Even better, if word spreads among devs that this is a good approach, hopefully they'll bring over titles they wouldn't have otherwise. Look at Everspace. They almost dropped the Linux version because of platform specific development difficulties. Maybe in the future, such decisions won't need to exist...

As already said here, maybe one day we have unified gaming platform for all OSs. It could be based upon Win32 and Vulkan. Personally I have no problem with that. Still GOG and itch.io users won't like it, at least until those shops adopt a solution like Proton themselves.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

"Worth noting this is only on Steam of course, the native Linux builds are still available from Humble Store, GOG and itch.io."
So it will be a problem for itch.io and GOG users at least. Therefore it's not a satisfactory solution. For me it could be acceptable it it were availlable on Steam only.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Eike

Quoting: ixnariThe state of the game right now is...not optimal. Lots of users are reporting crashes and the UI unfortunately doesn't seem to scale, as it looks absolutely tiny on 4k monitors, which makes text a bit hard to read. I would definitely wait to see if they fix these issues before purchasing it.

Sounds like it's not a big loss to wait some weeks for it. But I will take a look, the first one was great.

I have high hopes for the game! The first one was great indeed. There are not so much good WEGO tactics games availlable, and I really hope the completely new game world gives the tactics part context and motivation. if it does, the result hast result in a great game!
The game has become quite complex, and the lead/single? developer recently complained about lack of sleep on Twitter. So I think in time, especially with the Linux and Mac releases out of the way, they will iron out the issues.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: lucifertdark

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: GuestI just want voices and music in Skyrim Special Edition....

I believe FAudio will fix that, which Ethan Lee is working on. Let's hope Valve hire him, full speed ahead number 1!

That will be the solution to make it work out of the box. However there is a workaround for Skyrim Special Edition. Works for me..

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/99i4se/skyrim_on_linux_steam_play_no_voiceno_music_audio/ [External Link]

I like the "works for me" part, when you clearly haven't tested the workaround...

That workaround, slightly modified, works for the original version of Skyrim, all it did for me with the SE version was crash it.

In my case it changed from mute companion to talking companion. I must say I never would have guessed that something not sound related could break it again, but ok, you never stop learning..

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Guest

Quoting: Nevertheless

Quoting: liamdawe

Quoting: GuestI just want voices and music in Skyrim Special Edition....

I believe FAudio will fix that, which Ethan Lee is working on. Let's hope Valve hire him, full speed ahead number 1!

That will be the solution to make it work out of the box. However there is a workaround for Skyrim Special Edition. Works for me..

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux_gaming/comments/99i4se/skyrim_on_linux_steam_play_no_voiceno_music_audio/ [External Link]

I like the "works for me" part, when you clearly haven't tested the workaround...

When you're in the middle of a dungeon, there is not much need for fast travelling.. If you by "clearly haven't tested" mean that I didn't play the game through, then you're right. ;-)

View this comment - View article - View full comments