Quoting: Purple Library GuyI don't think that link went where you intended it to go.

No, the link went exactly where I intended :wink:

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Quoting: Whitewolfe80Thing with wayland is its still not as good as Xorg for gaming if your not gaming then apprently its good.

After I changed to Wayland/Xwayland I've only noticed improvements in my setup, specially with native games being more responsive (like Left 4 Dead 2) or more fps (Magicka 2). Also didn't notice any regressions with other games I've tested compared to x11.

Of course I'm only talking about my case, and I haven't tested all the games out there, but today personally I would recommend wayland for gaming too, and speaking for myself, I don't want to use x11 as default again, even if means stop using my favorite desktop enviroment (Cinnamon)

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Quoting: furaxhornyxThere a Community edition of Manjaro Cinnamon

I know, I was using it before

Quoting: furaxhornyxWhat prevents you from using it ?

Lack of Wayland support

Quoting: officernice...Then install it? :p

I wish, but it only supports x11 right now

Quoting: officerniceyou know you can install it on any distro right its just an environment/window manager you can install any of them

I know that, but I almost sure Cinnamon won't support wayland in a near future [External Link], and personally I don't want to go back to x11 despite having to use Gnome

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Quoting: Alm888Selling hardware to Linux users is "causing problems" now?

No, but not following the standard of the linux support is

Quoting: Alm888It is an open market and a company can choose the way it wants to sell and support its products. Don't agree with said company?

True, they don't have any obligation to follow an standard to support Linux, but once they decide to diverge from it, it becomes their responsibility only to support the said system.

Quoting: Alm888Do not buy its products. Plain and simple.

I don't buy anymore (my last nvidia board was from my windows days :wink:)

Quoting: Alm888But calling people who are of different opinion and think nVidia's level (or way) of support is good enough "fanboys" is just a little overstepping the red line.

I call "fanboys" those who use Nvidia on linux and blame every other factor when their cards don't work well because of an update. If you're not one of those, then I wasn't talk about you.

Quoting: Alm888Care to provide a single instance of someone stating "EGLStreams is superior"? I'm having a hard time recollecting the instance I saw this. And I myself have not ever said such a thing because I have no competence in the field to make such statements.

I was using a fallacy, but yes I saw (more than once) people saying it was wayland developers fault to not using EGLStreams and they (and every other vendor) should change it to start using.

I really wish I had some of those post right now to link here, but you'll find someday in a discussion about Wayland in foruns like Reddit or Phoronix

Quoting: Alm888AMD "non-fanboys", on the other hand, like to say that it is "general consensus" to use GBM (or whatewer it is called) and nVidia is the sole black sheep daring reject the norm.

(Please some reader correct me here If I'm saying anything wrong)
The "general consensus" as you said was defined back when X.org developers started to planing wayland, and they call every big vendor at time (including Nvidia) to decide which technology they would use. They decide to use GBM in the end and everyone accepted, except Nvidia who wanted everyone else to use their solution, and Canonical, who decide to not support Wayland at all and launch Mir (which didn't worked, and now Mir is another Wayland compositor).

And no, I'm not an AMD fanboy. I even recognize that Nvidia is superior in hardware (and price) and I would probably get one again if wasn't for their actual business practices.

Quoting: Alm888Yeah, in an insulting way.

I was only answering @Shmerl (who have an more optimistic view about it than I) and you take it personal. I'm truly sorry if you felt offended by my comment, I wasn't my intention, and know that if you're not in the case I said before, then be sure I wasn't talk about you.

Quoting: Alm888Some people just have to put salt even in the good news.

Good news indeed, it's a sign that Nvidia is feeling obligated to not neglect Wayland anymore, and Geforce users will benefit the most of it.

I'm just tired to see people spreading misinformation about Linux topics (which happens more than you think).

It's always about "If the software doesn't work with Windows, then it's the software's fault"

But when it's on Linux is "If the software doesn't work with Linux, then it's Linux fault"

And this makes me sad because it has a indirect negative impact for us.

In this case, Wayland developers are the victim because Nvidia has too much influence, and they only does this because Linux is their second class users.

If they tried to go against any of the Microsoft driver standards on Windows, not only their drivers wouldn't work at all, but Nvidia would have bankrupt by now.

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Any practical advantage of using AMD open source drivers instead of Mesa?

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I miss Cinnamon :cry:

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Quoting: Alm888Personal insults already?

Not an insult, I was talking about those users defending Nvidia even when it's the company the cause of those said problems.

But every time I see an argument about "Wayland sucks because they didn't choose the "superior Nvidia EGLStreams"" I get the same energy as "Linux sucks because it won't run my [Windows only trending game]" which the point is, they're blaming the wrong subject for the problem in this case

Wayland (compositors) are far from perfect and it have it's whole share of problems, but Nvidia non standard proprietary drivers is not one of them.

Quoting: Alm888Why there are a lot of ATi users in the nVidia thread? Don't you have anything better to do than spew your hatred towards nVidia?

Personally, I'm only comment because of the Wayland subject, which I'm really happy to see "some progress" from nvidia (even if I don't use it anymore) because it has a positive impact in the wayland adoption as default

You won't see me comment any of those news here about "Nvidia new driver releases" for example.

Quoting: Alm888must manually compile the latest Mesa drivers from Git applying patches and using new "sometimes working sometimes crashing on start" ACO shader compiler!

Fortunately I'm yet to experience a problem with Mesa + ACO in my setup, I always only needed Pacman -Syu (and ppa before that) and never had to compile a single driver in my life (I think I don't even know how to do it :whistle:)

In fact, most of the people I see talking about problems with linux gaming are always using "Nvidia + KDE" combo

Quoting: Alm888How dare they use cards that just work

If you're using Nvidia drivers + wayland without any problems, then those drivers are in a better state than I thought

Quoting: Alm888even back when those cards outright refused to work on Linux (say "Hello!" to fglrx).

Agreed. AMD before Lisa Su was in a sorrow state, and look how things improved with Linux after they release the open source drivers :happy:

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Quoting: Shmerlbut coming from Nvidia with their money I'd count it as too little too late to affect how Linux gamers will perceive them.

I wish this was the case, but there's a lot of fanboys using Linux who are defending Nvidia, even when it's obviously their fault that wayland don't work with their graphic cards. Even a half-arsed "fix" from them is more than enough to make a lot of linux gamers to still give them money.

Quoting: ShmerlRegrading Wayland itself - now the big missing piece is Wayland support in Wine.

Fortunately, this only depends of open source software, so it'll eventually become true :)

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Quoting: 3zekielThe issue has nothing to do with proprietary or open source.

I didn't said that the problem was the driver being proprietary, I said the problem is the said driver not supporting GBM.

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Quoting: EikeI didn't look into Wayland yet, but XWayland is not the real thing, right?

No and yes, "XWayland" is like a container using X11 to run applications which doesn't support wayland natively, but since is isolated to the rest of the system, you can still benefit from some wayland advantages (alt + tab and alt + f4, for example, is way more responsive than x11).

Also, X.org developers will now work with only XWayland support instead of x11, so probably we'll have a optimized x11 running inside XWayland in future updates (and less bloated too)

Quoting: EikeIs it impossible for my graphics card vendor to do full Wayland support while keeping its driver closed?

Presuming is Nvidia you're talking about, right now the answer is yes because Nvidia proprietary drivers can't run GBM.

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