Edit: edited to reflect Beanboom's edit. :smile:

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: PhiladelphusMost people aren't interested in how computers work, they just want them to work.

Exactly! And that's totally fine!
And then we're back to what was my original point, when I uttered the now evidently controversial words that I don't subscribe to the idea of "Linux for everyone". No OS is for everyone - Windows is really not for me - and I see no point in even wanting all three to be as similar as possible to "please all".

To repeat my comparison with cameras (won't blame you if you missed it in this chaos :) ): A smart phone, a pocket camera and system camera can all produce great pictures. Some are best off using their phone for their pics, others have good reasons to get a dedicated pocket camera, while others again should definitely go for the system camera. They are three different offerings with each their pros and cons. As is how I also see OsX, Windows and Linux.

Linux is the "system camera" in this comparison. I think one should have the motivation to walk that extra mile to learn that OS properly. Because there are some core differences between Linux and the others.

Or to use your car example: Some is best suited with a new Toyota with zero maintenance, while others can't wait to get the grease from a 70' Porche on their hands. Different needs, different cars.

That's simply my point. Of whom many disagree. And, again, that's totally fine!

Indeed! I don't mind a healthy discussion. I think the disagreement here is fundamentally about the use of the term "Linux". You seem to be using it (correct me if I'm wrong) as if "Linux" is a single operating system in contrast to Windows and macOS. My point is that it's not, it's a kernel inside many related operating systems. To me, it's not that "Linux" is a system camera, it's that some Linux distros are system cameras, while others are pocket cameras or smart phones. Or maybe a better way of putting is that all Linux distros are system cameras under the hood, but some present themselves as smart phones to non-tech savvy users. :grin:

I want Linux to be for everyone so that everyone can enjoy the benefits of a freer, more secure, and cheaper alternative to Windows and macOS, but that doesn't mean that every single distro has to be "Grandma-proof*"; it just means that we need some distros like that (which we already have, thankfully). The number of different Linux distros is its ultimate strength, allowing it to actually be for everyone without everyone having to use the exact same OS. Not everyone will end up compiling their own kernels on a distro with no windows manager, but everyone should be able to at least handle basic computing tasks on a Linux-based OS. Does that make sense? To me "Linux should be for everyone" is like saying "driving should be for everyone"; in both cases you do need some minimum level of proficiency (to use a computer/get a drivers license), but beyond that you shouldn't need to know how to strip an engine to get the benefits of driving any more than you should need to know the inner workings of your package manager on the command line to get the benefits of having access to the internet. Linux can be a family minivan just as well as it can be a Formula 1 race car, and that's (just a small part of!) what makes it so great. :smile:

*Apologies to any tech-savvy grandmas reading this!

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: AshenPaladinI don't know if Linus was playing a role

Given that in the second video in the series out today he admitted to blindly trying to use apt on his new Manjaro system without realizing it uses pacman instead, I'm going to go with "not playing a role". :grin:

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: Purple Library GuyBut it's not '99 any more. If I started today, I wouldn't have had to do any of that stuff. And I wouldn't have done it, because I only did it because I had to. I wasn't on a voyage of discovery, I was just trying to un-break stuff.

But that's how you learn!!

I hate to break this to you, so how do I put it gently...not everyone wants to learn. Or, more accurately (and charitably), not everyone wants to learn the same stuff. And I don't think that's a failing on their part. Like, I don't find sports or makeup techniques interesting, but I don't judge those who want to learn about them in hopes that they extend the same courtesy to me.

I get it. You think learning about the internals of computers is fascinating. My new day job is programming, so I sort of understand. I like learning about computers too. But I like to do it of my own volition, not because I'm forced to in order to do some task that should take 30 seconds but has instead required an evening of Googling and scouring old forums and Stack Exchange threads. That's not fun learning for me, nor, I'm willing to bet, most people.

Most people aren't interested in how computers work, they just want them to work. Similarly, if my car starts making a funny noise, I'm going to take it to a mechanic rather than start digging around inside, because learning more about the specifics of how it works doesn't interest me. I'd rather put that time towards learning things that do; I've got a list as long as my arm (and ever-growing) of things that I'd like to be learning, and every hour spent getting my Linux machine working again is an hour not spent on something I'd rather be doing.

Just as I don't think we should, say, restrict the autonomy of driving an automobile to mechanics who can build one from parts, neither should we keep people from using (operating systems built around) the best kernel out there just because they don't know how to use the terminal and don't care to learn. If they want to learn more, fine; Linux'll let you do that in spades! If they want to continue using it to surf the web and watch movies without ever touching a terminal, also fine. At least they're using a freer, more secure, OS and not having to spend as much of their hard-earned money on it, and I think it's an admirable goal to expand those benefits to as many people as possible.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Worth it for that new origin with the fishy ether drake alone, in my opinion. :woot:

But there's a bunch of other cool stuff there as well, now if only my PC would hurry up and get delivered to my new place so I can play again!

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: fleskThat's understandable. After a bit of digging, I found this trailer, which should give you a better idea of what the game is about:

https://youtu.be/pM_5Ecz-J0U [External Link]

I see, thanks! Not quite my type of game it looks like, but I appreciate you making the effort.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Beamboom

Quoting: Liam DaweThis is a false comparison, and not one you can really make against much in this situation. We're not talking about a specialised field in any way - this is general purpose computing.

Actually, when I did the comparison between Linux and Formel 1 I for the first time in this discussion actually DID feel elitish... That was a horribly cocky, snobbish comparison :D

I should perhaps rather compare it with cameras?

I actually think the car comparison has some merit, so I'm going to back to it, with a twist: Linux is like the internal combustion engine, not a specific type of automobile. "Linux" as we colloquially use it refers to hundreds of different operating systems, much as there are hundreds of different types of automobiles out there. Some distros are like Formula 1 race cars, best left to professionals who know what they're doing. Critically, however, there are also distros out there that are like sedans and minivans: much safer alternatives which pretty much everyone can learn to drive without too much specialized training.

Now, I recently bought a car. Among the confusing plethora of new features it has*, is some sort of auto-brake technology for when it detects that a car in front of me on the road has slammed on the brakes and a collision is approaching. Or something like that at least, I haven't tested it and don't intend to, but the point is it's supposed to help prevent a collision beyond what I and my human reflexes might be able to (or at least mitigate one if it still happens).

From my point of view, these kinds of changes to KDE Discover and apt are like rolling out that technology to all automobiles. All it does is make it harder for people to end up in an accident**, while not doing anything to stop people who want to deliberately crash their car into something. I don't think someone needs to crash a car to be considered a "real" driver, nor do they need to brick their Linux-based system*** to be a "real" Linux user. There can still be specialized distros (just as there can be more general-use ones), they're just a bit safer now—and the people who know enough to use them know enough to bypass the safety features if they really need to, from what I've read.

I can see the point of view (as advanced by mirv) that these changes happened quite quickly, and it's possible they're not the best such changes that could be made. Hopefully, should that prove to be the case, we can expect further changes that revert/improve upon the ones that have been made to arrive at an even better solution. Progress is iterative, after all.

*Seriously, my last car was a 2013 model, then I didn't have a car at all from 2017 to last month when I got a used 2018 model, and I feel like I'm driving the freakin' Space Shuttle or something.

**And having come out of two car-totalling collisions relatively unscathed (in no small part due to all the safety features of modern cars), I'm all for avoiding a third one!

***I've yet to do that in 7 years so far. (The one time I've had to reinstall was due to a hardware failure.)

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: flesk

Quoting: PhiladelphusThat sure was a trailer, all right.

More like a teaser, I think. I quite liked the first game, so I'm going to buy this one too.

That makes a bit more sense! I was just confused, since to a person like me, with no idea about the original game, it gave me zero information as to what this game might be like or whether I might want to play it.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: damarrinThis is actually wrong. The UK has those huge sockets that can only work one way for electrical reaons (as far as I can tell), but other countries really don't. The US situation you describe is the norm, not the exception. This is alternating current, it'll work both ways because the current changes direction multiple times per second.

In Poland we have these grounded sockets/plugs that actually can be plugged in one way because there's a ground rod in the socket, though that is a limitation of the physical, not electrical, design. In neighbouring European countries they use almost the same plug but without the third rod and with two contacts on opposing sides of the plug and these can be put in every which way.

That's true, I forgot about the reversible European plugs. Though looking at the Wikipedia page for plug and socket standards it still looks like non-reversible is the norm and reversible the exception globally. (If nothing else, the socket used in China is non-reversible.) But perhaps it wasn't the best example.

Quoting: damarrinLinux and apt have been fine before they came along and breaking one's system is part of the learning experience and now there will be people who will be denied that.

I mean, you can totally still break your system in any number of other ways. In fact you can still break your system in this exact way, it just takes one extra step. (And personally, I've yet to break my system in 7 years of using Linux and that's one "learning experience" I'm happy to continue avoiding.)

View this comment - View article - View full comments

That sure was a trailer, all right.

View this comment - View article - View full comments

Quoting: Liam Dawe

Quoting: PhiladelphusAre you fighting Mr. Blobby in that screenshot? Only recognize that from watching British YouTubers... :whistle:

Look, I went to Blobby Land as a child and know how evil Mr. Blobby is okay.

Oh I wasn't debating that! :grin:

View this comment - View article - View full comments