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Quoting: doragasuTranslations and OCR are not the things that have caused the hatred.

(I'll ignore your second sentence, if you're able to discuss without personal attacks that is?)

Caused it: no, but they do get included in the hatred.
Because Mozilla's marketing grouped those features together under the “AI” buzzword, and because some people freak out at “AI” → large image/text generation models → sloppy work, license infringement, high resource usage and whatnot (and I agree with most of these claims).

The comment I was originally quoting called for all those features to be disabled by default, so does the latest comment as I'm typing this:

Quoting: EhvisI would like to think the majority of users would want it all turned off.

And I sincerely disagree: I'm pretty happy when my browser politely asks me if I want websites written in German to be translated into French for me.

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Quoting: hardpenguinHow about you disable them by default, Mozilla, and have people unleash AI at their own peril -_-

This is dumb. So dumb.

AI is selling like hotcakes, so Mozilla have decided that they need to provide these cool new trendy AI features out of the box in order to try and attract more users (who of course wouldn't know how to manually turn them on if they were turned off by default). But they do recognize that there are people like you who don't like anything AI, so contrary to everyone else in the competition they're actually giving you a switch that you can use to completely disable everything.

And yet you still complain, and instead want Mozilla to shoot themselves in the foot by disabling all their cool new trendy features and thus lose potential new users who will instead run even faster off to Chrome, which will mean even less revenue for Mozilla in the long term and will force them to sell out even more of their core values in order to attract funding and stay in the green, all for the sake of your personal crusade.

This is dumb. So dumb.

Quoting: grigiI would love to turn off "AI" features by default and then only turn the ones I need on manually. Instead it's either "all OFF", or "ON by default".

It's not like that though. It's either "all OFF", or "ON by default", or "some OFF and some ON, pick and choose exactly what you want to use". As far as I can tell by the pictures, you'll be able to do exactly what you want to do.

Quoting: syylk...Until you are the one shopping for a pair of DIMMs.

That's a side-effect of out-of-control capitalism though, not of AI itself. Yesterday it was bitcoin mining and GPUs, today it's "AI" and RAM, tomorrow it will be something else. It's an unfortunate that we live in a society of gullible fools, but what can you do.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: ArehandoroI'd consider Blade Runner a traditional point&click :)

Hard to say, Lucas Arts SCUMM engine itself was initially about 2D adventure games, but in practice it was something more like a programming basis, same way ScummVM may be more than just about adventure games.

But overall I'd say majority of ScummVM games are still adventure games.

Exactly. My question to @Geamandura was semi-rethorical, it probably wasn't clear enough, to make a point that OpenMW or Heroes would not fit the ScummVM ideology.

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Quoting: JarmerYou gotta give #3 a go! It's SOOOO GOOD. I didn't like the overworld traversal all that much, but EVERYTHING else is so well done. The humor is great, and it's got such a good power creep. Mid-game when your builds finally start shining it's just crazy fun to unleash all hell in random encounters.

Oh I fully intend to! It's on my wishlist, just waiting to whittle down my unplayed games a bit more before I pull the trigger on buying anything else.

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Quoting: ArehandoroI'd consider Blade Runner a traditional point&click :)

Hard to say, Lucas Arts SCUMM engine itself was initially about 2D adventure games, but in practice it was something more like a programming basis, same way ScummVM may be more than just about adventure games.

But overall I'd say majority of ScummVM games are still adventure games.

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Quoting: Purple Library Guy

Quoting: wit_as_a_riddleI find the moral indignation over what others do with their own hard earned money to be performative.

That sounds like it makes sense, but it's ludicrous. So, Geoffrey Epstein spent his own hard earned money on sex with underage girls. I am morally indignant about that. Not you, though, that would be "performative".

That sounds like it makes sense, but it's ludicrous! The morally repugnant issue is sex with underage girls, spending money on it or not is irrelevant.

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Quoting: hardpenguinHow about you disable them by default, Mozilla, and have people unleash AI at their own peril -_-

This is dumb. So dumb.

I would like to think the majority of users would want it all turned off. But honestly, I'd not be willing to stake anything significant on that being true.

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Quoting: Shmerl

Quoting: ArehandoroAren't all supported games in ScummVM traditional graphic adventures (~point& click)?

Initially and most of them are, but they branched out into more types, like Blade Runner.

I'd consider Blade Runner a traditional point&click :)

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Quoting: ArehandoroAren't all supported games in ScummVM traditional graphic adventures (~point& click)?

Initially and most of them are, but they branched out into more types, like Blade Runner.

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Quoting: GeamanduraThis was always an amazing project to provide a 2D adventure game engine, but I genuinely don't understand what are they doing now with including separate engines for running a 3D game Penumbra. At this point what stops them from e.g. including OpenMW, including the Heroes 2 and Heroes 3 open source engines, etc.? What is the purpose of this project morphing into a bundle of their initial vision engine plus more and more unrelated random shit?

Aren't all supported games in ScummVM traditional graphic adventures (~point& click)?

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Oh, Penumbra. Nice.

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This won't block Google AI to intrude into your searches.

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how about having a separate build of firefox without telemetry and ai slop

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I'll never use vanilla ff again because of mozilla's disastrous management decisions, but this at least I like because I *think* it'll make it easier for the various forks like zen / libre / etc to just disable remove all this bullshit?

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Quoting: ExpalphalogAtom just didn't hit for me and I don't know why. I love tactical CRPGs. I love the old Fallout games. I love the first two Wasteland games (haven't gotten around to trying 3 yet). I played Atom for around 23 hours and then quit though, which is very rare for me. Usually I either abandon games within the first 3 hours or I play them all the way through barring game-breaking bugs.

You gotta give #3 a go! It's SOOOO GOOD. I didn't like the overworld traversal all that much, but EVERYTHING else is so well done. The humor is great, and it's got such a good power creep. Mid-game when your builds finally start shining it's just crazy fun to unleash all hell in random encounters.

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Quoting: Nic264

Quoting: hardpenguinHow about you disable them by default, Mozilla, and have people unleash AI at their own peril -_-

This is dumb. So dumb.

What's dumb about translations and OCR?

Blind hatred for anything labeled with “AI” is as pointless as hatred for anything that uses linked lists.

Translations and OCR are not the things that have caused the hatred.

And you know. Stop playing dumb.

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I'll be the one to say it:

Consider all those who got gassed up on the cyclical $NEW_WINDOWS bad streak who tried out Linux on their gaming computers, only to feel overwhelmed or burned or whatever by the differences (of which newbies will always make mountains out of mole hills) who then promptly return to the familiarity of Windows.

I suspect we'll see another small decrease next month too.

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I've been having loads of fun in Valheim. The game feels complete and polished as far as I'm concerned. Not sure what they're waiting for to finally drop "early access".

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Quoting: scaine[Duckduckgo did a survey](https://voteyesornoai.com/) asking their userbase if they wanted AI features. They closed the poll after a week or so, 175K votes counted, and 90% said no, they don't want AI.

Yes, it's very skewed - DDG's userbase is privacy-focused. But "tiny but super vocal butt-hurt minority" is a shitty and antagonistic way to describes people's perfectly valid dislike of this planet-burning technology.

Asking in good faith: If non-local AI features were able to operate in an ecologically viable way, would you then not dislike AI? Are there other aspects about ML/AI that keep you from engaging with it?

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Quoting: PaldinoXYeah yeah, when are we getting a REAL statement on the AI thing GOG?

Never probably.

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Quoting: kaimanImproving on the Civilization formula is really not that simple. Change it too much and people complain it's no longer Civilization. Change it too little and people see no reason to upgrade from the previous installment.

That's, in short, what's wrong with today's AAA gaming segment. They constantly fix what's not broken, just to get an excuse to release full-price updates of existing games.

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Quoting: AzzurraIrisLeaMondeHow many moms do you have? 👀

Oh dear, only the one, but apparently I have a surplus of s-keys on my keyboard 😄

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Quoting: GeamanduraThis was always an amazing project to provide a 2D adventure game engine, but I genuinely don't understand what are they doing now with including separate engines for running a 3D game Penumbra. At this point what stops them from e.g. including OpenMW, including the Heroes 2 and Heroes 3 open source engines, etc.? What is the purpose of this project morphing into a bundle of their initial vision engine plus more and more unrelated random shit?

What I think happened is that the HPL1 engine was in pretty bad shape. Outdated third party dependencies, hard to compile on modern platforms etc. There doesn't seem to be much activity on the GitHub page for the initial source release, and no active forks I could find so clearly some heavy TLC needed.

Presumably ScummVM already have a lots of tools needed for any game, input/sound, handling savegames, built with portability in mind and so on, and with 3D support already there with the Residual merger I guess it was less work integrating it with ScummVM than doing a total rewrite?

FWIW: It was started as a GSoC back in 2022:
https://blogs.scummvm.org/grisenti/2022/09/11/gsoc-summary/

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Quoting: sanBring back memories of another Road Rash remake a while ago called Road Redemption.

https://store.steampowered.com/app/300380/Road_Redemption/

Wow. That's a very modernized update to Road Rash's look. Stunning visuals. It includes a Native Linux version too.

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Quoting: GeamanduraWhat is the purpose of this project morphing into a bundle of their initial vision engine plus more and more unrelated random shit?

Well, from a user's perspective, not having to keep track of ten thousand little projects is kind of valuable.

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Cool demo, but I hope in the final release they add a dark mode. I get migraines easily by looking at white screens for too long so I had to stop playing the game pretty quick.

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All this so called "backlash" has been for nothing LMAO... From the very beginning Mozilla said they would do this even BEFORE the "backlash" started.. but NO ONE took the time to ACTUALLY read their initial announcement. We live in the age of rage bait and people reading a headline and NOTHING else. Now granted Mozilla should be disabling them by default but it is what it is

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: _wojteksadly tiny but super vocal butt-hurt minority

[Duckduckgo did a survey](https://voteyesornoai.com/) asking their userbase if they wanted AI features. They closed the poll after a week or so, 175K votes counted, and 90% said no, they don't want AI.

Yes, it's very skewed - DDG's userbase is privacy-focused. But "tiny but super vocal butt-hurt minority" is a shitty and antagonistic way to describes people's perfectly valid dislike of this planet-burning technology.

@Eike summed it up perfectly.

Also, you yourself point only to DDG survey where most likely only those hell-bent on anti-AI crusade participated (because it was shared in certain places) :D

Probably the most reliable thing would be to force the survey to all Fx users to get the correct trends but the… they kinda already have that and it's called tellemetry and they can see if the current AI features are used or not and they probably make the decission based on that.

Of course the same vocal minority was butt-hurt about telemetry back in the day and gladly turned it off just to voice their disconent later on.

All in all, Mozilla DID address the issue in a quite nice and elegant way.
The setting will be permanent and apply to all feature AI features.

It will probably be featured in "what's new" after the update so everyone affected will be able to turn it off. Why the heck still complain about what they did???

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It is a good thing many people complained about the AI additions. If we didn't complain, then the disable feature would never have been implemented or if it was you would never find it. They would add it to some config file.

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Quoting: scaine

Quoting: _wojteksadly tiny but super vocal butt-hurt minority

[Duckduckgo did a survey](https://voteyesornoai.com/) asking their userbase if they wanted AI features. They closed the poll after a week or so, 175K votes counted, and 90% said no, they don't want AI.

Yes, it's very skewed - DDG's userbase is privacy-focused. But "tiny but super vocal butt-hurt minority" is a shitty and antagonistic way to describes people's perfectly valid dislike of this planet-burning technology.

_wojtek spoke about those that still spread hate even with being able to easily turn it off. I don't think this can be associated with all people not wanting AI active in their browsers.

Yes, there's still reasons to dislike it. But hey, if nearly nobody wants AI, nearly nobody's gonna use it, right?

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